Mr. Tom Halpin:

In respect of retrofitting, we have a number of schemes and home energy grants for both those who can pay and the energy poor, up to and including special interest groups in the fuel poor area. To date, through our schemes, some 360,000 homes have been retrofitted and the State has invested €460 million in those retrofits. On a scale, this would be deemed to be from shallow to moderate retrofit, given most of the schemes have taken a relatively piecemeal approach - it could be anything like an attic insulation or wall insulation, or combinations thereof.

More recently, we introduced a deep retrofit scheme that is looking at precisely the measure referred to by Deputy Chambers, which is how to take the home as a holistic energy system, look at its precise needs and decide what is the most appropriate solution. We are investigating how to bring homes up to an A3 rating or better from what can be a poor starting point such as a G rating. It requires a significant investment and can range from €5,000, €10,000 or €15,000 all the way up to between €50,000 and €70,000 for deep retrofit. We are supporting that currently with grant schemes offering in the region of 50%. We have 36 projects approved so far and these will demonstrate what is possible. However, it is not only the technical solution that it is necessary to unlock. First, there is the willingness of people to make that investment, and we are doing this analysis through our behavioural economics team to discover the triggers for people to make this investment, rather than making the investment in, say, aesthetic aspects of their home or holidays or cars, given there are always competing priorities. The other point is to look at how this is financed. If it was to proceed, the State would have to invest in all those homes at a cost of €30,000 to €40,000 each. We need to look at how to unlock low interest finance for those who can afford to finance this sort of activity. We are engaged in a number of pilot programmes with the banks and credit unions to find what are the trusted lenders in this sphere.

Of course, what this also points to is there is no silver bullet. Had that silver bullet been around, I presume Mr. Griffin and many others would have liked to have had it many moons ago, but there is none. It will be a case of trying to find the many combinations that work in different environments. All along, we will have to be conscious of the energy poor sector, those who are incapable of affording this, who will have to be brought along. That will probably have to be 100% subvented by the State, as it currently is.