Mr. Gerard O'Leary:

I would like to think we would be asked in the light of our track record in recent years on national priority sites, in taking cases through the courts and our investigative work. Five years ago there were 10,000 pieces of paper going back and forth between the EPA and licensees. The system is now electronic. It is something the European Union has acknowledged and would like to see in place in other jurisdictions. Therefore, I would like to think we would be asked to take a greater role in this area because of our track record.

Deputy Brian Stanley mentioned suspension and revocation. I was not pleased with the illegal activity I saw shown in the programme, but several barristers or legal academics talked about the challenges in implementing the legislation. There was a case in which we endeavoured to have a licence suspended. Frankly, we had been through the District Court and felt there was a need to suspend the licence. It is still within the courts system, but we believe we are going to have a resolution that will bring the concern involved back to compliance. However, as Deputy Timmy Dooley said, it is a big drag on resources, but it is not something that came about voluntarily. There is a cohort in the sector with whom we see similar tendencies.

On revocation, I would go as far as to say that we have gone to injunct facilities to close them down. For me it was the most non-compliant licensed activity that the EPA has licensed, it took us two attempts in the High Court to eventually close down the facility. I would like to think that the committee got a picture through the programme from the legal people who spoke on the challenges within the court system.

Deputy Stanley asked about the fines. For the District Court it is €5,000 or 12 months in prison or both. If a file is sent to the Director of Public Prosecutions, DPP, which we have done, it is up to €15 million or ten years in jail. We have had one major success. It was a huge file we sent to the DPP where a company was fined €20 million but that would be the exception rather than the norm.

On the administrative system and the split between permits and licences, I will ask my colleague about the threshold but it is something that has not been thought of in Ireland. It comes from the European directive that the larger activities would require a licence and that would attract things such as environmental impact statements and there would be greater rigour. For the smaller activities the permits would be the issue. It is amazing that on occasions I see that things just come in under the threshold on the activities because the permit was intended to be an easier route to get a licence. I say anecdotally that there can be a thin line on that.