Dr. Gillian O'Brien:

On Mr. Rogan's point, we need to design services with young men in mind. We pay much attention to this in Jigsaw. One needs to brand and promote one's service in such a way that it speaks to the audience. We have found and are really proud - I looked at it this morning before I came here - that the ratio of males to females using our service is 44:56. Progress is being made, but one needs to put much time and effort into it. We ask young men what would make it more likely for them to come to a service, rather than presuming that we know.