Mr. Daragh Connolly:

In response to Deputy Billy Kelleher's question, as a representative body for pharmacists, the Irish Pharmacy Union offers good training packages for supervising pharmacists on how to train staff and lay out their premises, for example, on where to place closed circuit camera systems and what to do in the event of a raid, which is extremely important. As members will be aware from the experience recounted by Ms Horan - I have had similar personal experiences - no element of training will ever make someone fully compos mentis, as it were, in terms of what to do when faced by someone pointing a gun. However, we do as much as we can to get pharmacists to talk to their staff about what to do in the event of a robbery.

Deputy Billy Kelleher also asked how we helped staff who had been through the psychological trauma of a robbery. We have a link with VHI under which it provides a private and confidential telephone line which any member of the IPU can call to arrange counselling. The matter can also be dealt with by the particular pharmacist speaking to people locally. We know that those who have used the VHI service the IPU provides as part of membership are glad that it is available. Sadly, accessing such a service through the Health Service Executive or the public health system would probably take too long. It is good, therefore, that we can offer this service to our members.

Deputy Billy Kelleher asked a good question about the types of criminal we encountered and whether they were professional criminals or desperate individuals looking for drugs. The Irish Pharmacy Union made a submission in the previous Dáil to the joint committee with responsibility for justice matters. We indicated that we agreed with decriminalisation of the possession of small amounts of drugs. International experience shows that people become engaged in petty crime because they are found in possession of small amounts of drugs for personal use. They then enter the revolving doors of the criminal justice system and are unable to access the health services they need. They are entering the judicial system when they should probably be entering the health system.

To respond to the Deputy's question on the reporting of crime, I have experienced instances of shoplifting and so forth. On one particular occasion, a young couple entered my shop and were in the process of stealing cosmetics from me. In the ensuing altercation I was punched, spat at and kicked by the girl, rather than the guy. I called the police who knew who the couple were. Curiously, one of the gardaí asked me if she could view CCTV recordings for the three hours preceding the incident. When I asked why she needed this material, she replied that it was in case I had said anything to the person who had kicked, spat at and punched me that might have offended her. Despite having 20 years' experience as a community pharmacist in Dungarvan, I had to prove I had not said something which could have offended the young girl who had come into the shop to steal from me. When the case eventually went to court, I was advised by the Garda that the girl would plead to a lesser charge of affray, rather than assault. I asked what would happen if I sought to have her charged with assault - I had been assaulted - but was advised by a garda that I would need to take a day off work and employ a locum pharmacist at considerable expense while I was away from my business for the day. Ultimately, the perpetrator would probably say she had a headache and did not want to go through the trauma of having to see me, which could mean that the case would be thrown out or not proceed.

The Garda told me to take her advice and let her plead to a roll-over charge, in which two or three charges are taken together. She will plead guilty and the statistics will show that a crime has been solved. I do not know if the woman did any time or had to answer for what she had done in my pharmacy on that day. The incentive is not there for a pharmacist because we have to have supervising pharmacists' cover in the pharmacy for us to go to court for something that might not happen at all.