Ms Joanne Irwin:

In response to Senator Ruane's question, there absolutely are teachers who are teaching outside of their fields. In fairness to the management of the schools, however, they must have teachers in front of the class. It all comes back to the issue of resources. If resources were put into a school, this would not arise.

Mixed ability classes suit some students. They can learn from one another in mixed ability classes. They do not suit all students. The reform of the junior cycle is moving to common level papers. That may alleviate the problem somewhat as well.

I could not agree more with the Senator's comments on the diversification of the teaching profession. Students relate to the teachers who are in front of them. The teachers in front of them need to be in reach of the students' own perspectives and where they are from. I work in adult and further education and we have programmes that can be done by students who are adults or for whom the second-level system just did not suit them. They come to us to overcome the shortfalls to be able to progress to third level. It might take them longer to get there but they get there in the end.

To respond to Senator Gallagher, we have been beating the drum on the issue he raised for seven years, since 2011. Lack of consultation is always the problem. We have found that things progress when we are consulted. We saw this when we worked with Deputy Jan O'Sullivan on the junior cycle. We see it in the technological universities project in that when we are involved and consulted, things move forward. The Department of Education and Skills, in fairness to it, is not our problem in this regard. The Department and the officials do what their political masters tell them to do. This is a political decision as to whether or not to fix the new entrant pay scales for teachers, for example. All these issues are political decisions, so it is members across the table who can rectify them because it is they who tell the Department of Education and Skills officials what to do, essentially. Sometimes we speak of the Department of Education and Skills in this regard. Ultimately, it is not the Department but the politicians.

One of the key recommendations is permanent contracts from the outset. I agree with Professor Ó Duibhir on this. That only 22% are getting full-time hours is ridiculous when we have such a shortage of teachers. On paying substitute teachers, the Union of Students in Ireland, USI, recently conducted research in conjunction with ICTU, ourselves, the ASTI and the INTO. What we suggested is that in the second year of the PME, when the students are out on their work placements, they would get paid for that, rather than being out in the schools effectively teaching classes for free. This would alleviate much of the substitute crisis as well. These teachers could register with the Teaching Council, albeit conditional registration for their second year. They can register for further education and then be paid. They would not get the qualified rate, but they would be paid. That would alleviate some of the problem.

In response to Senator Leyden, I am delighted Senators are finally acknowledging that there is no two-tier pay structure in Leinster House. If all the politicians in Leinster House acknowledged this, I do not think we would have two-tier pay scales anywhere in the public sector. As a result, we absolutely welcome his comment on that.

To respond to the question that was put to my colleague from Hibernia, publicly-funded higher education institutions are effectively capped in what they can take in because of the budget cuts and staffing restrictions. Those restrictions do not apply to private for-profit organisations. They do apply to publicly funded education. The universities have seen their funding cut by 26%, the institutes of technology by 32%, and at the same time they have had a 10% cut in staffing. Hence, they have restrictions placed upon them that private for-profit organisations do not. I just wanted to make that point.