Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
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I welcome the delegates. I agree with almost everything that has been said. I am a public representative for 43 years and have long experience of working on housing issues which have always been on my doorstep. I agree, in particular, with the points made about how local authorities deal with applicants when they first present. I have always objected to the hatch or counter mentality, particularly where individuals have to discuss personal matters with a queue of people behind them. That is absolutely unacceptable. Local authority officials should be instructed to automatically direct people who say they wish to discuss a private or housing matter to a private interview room or a comfortable space in which nobody else can hear what is being discussed. If that costs money, let it cost money and if councils have to rent other accommodation, that should be done. Respect for the individual should have primacy. I commend those in County Louth who work on housing issues, as they do a fantastic job, but when they do not have the facilities or provide the privacy the client needs, that is unacceptable.

Mr. Allen raised the issue of being an advocate for the client. Many families are able to make a good case, but others are not. They may have difficulties in communicating because of their educational background or they may not be used to dealing with officialdom and are intimidated by the process. An advocacy service is important to allow an advocate to accompany the client to the interview and present the case on his or her behalf. Attending the interview should be a professional service that is provided. People who are homeless or in acute housing difficulty may not know what the best case scenario is for them. Sometimes when talking to affected constituents, they mention casually that there is a serious medical problem in the family arising from caring for a child with a disability or someone being treated for cancer and so on.

Being able to articulate the best case for them is hugely important. We do it as elected representatives by listening and speaking to them. Quite often people do not put their best case forward and this is the other role of the advocate or council official. This is where the training issue comes in. There should be a national training course and a national standard that everybody must meet. Universally applied protocols must be in place and it should not be acceptable if they are not applied.

The advocacy bodies for housing are very strong and I welcome them. In many ways I do not suggest they should be the invigilators of the standard, but we need an independent look at how people are treated and dealt with by local authorities. This should be somebody outside the local government box. I would not have a problem if it was carried out collectively. It would be a professional service by an outside agency and it could be supported in providing it. We would have the same standards everywhere, we would have qualified people trained to listen and the best case would be put forward for people.

I am quite sure other members and the witnesses also come across people who had been on the housing list for eight years, then left an address but did not tell the local authority where they went and now find themselves cut off the housing list. If these people can prove they have been living in the community I do not have a problem with sustaining continuation of their housing timeline. If they leave the jurisdiction that is a different matter. This is a serious problem I come across it and it needs to be dealt with.

My next problem is on the housing assistance payment, HAP. My experience of it in Louth is completely the opposite to what we have heard, but that is the personal nature of the service. More than 2,000 people are in receipt of the HAP in Louth and it is a professional and focused top-class service. I cannot praise it enough. If and when I am in contact with the HAP service about a family the staff are fully versed with that family's needs. They are really on top of their game. I am sorry this is not happening in every area but I have no doubt it ought to be.

The issue of being non-judgmental has been mentioned. It does not matter who people are or what their background is, whatever it is no judgment should be made on them. This is critically important. Sometimes this is the case. People in extremiswho are homeless might ring me at 5 p.m. telling me the office is closed and asking what they will do, and I will phone the officer. They are in a dreadful situation. When people go looking for accommodation even with the HAP, if they are poor or unemployed they may feel inadequate because they are not dressed properly or they cannot speak with the same accent as other people because of where they come from. They feel absolutely discriminated against. I have discussed this with a housing body nationally and it funds applicants going for an interview for accommodation by giving them money. It is not a begging process, but if it feels it can help it will give the person a couple of hundred euro to buy a shirt and tie or a suit so that person presents as well as anybody else.

When landlords are deciding between applicants obviously they are subjective and perhaps they do not like somebody and one does not know why. The council could be the advocate whereby the HAP officer views a property for rent and asks to take it. I do not know whether this makes sense, but the council could be an agent that fills the property with its clients. In other words, the landlord would effectively let to the local authority. I know this is not a strictly legal case. This would take away discrimination by landlords who can and do discriminate against families who come from poor backgrounds. I do not have to spell it out. These are the types of changes that are needed.

I agree with the main point that has been made on evictions. I have heard about many of them. The number of people who come to me with their notice to get out has increased exponentially in the past year. I challenge the person and I ask to see the letter. I then telephone the landlord involved to see whether he or she does have a sister living in England. In many cases what the landlords say is not true, but they use it to get the person out.

This has been a very helpful debate and I thank the witnesses. I thank the Acting Chairman for allowing me to speak. This is positive determined collective progress that will articulate the change needed in officialdom and in how people are approached. Above all there should be respect for everybody and the words I want to hear are support, help, advocacy and empathy. We know when somebody who comes to us is not getting this. We know when they are angry and when nobody is listening to them. We need a sea change, and I recommend the Louth staff with whom I deal. We must have best practice, and nothing less than that will do or will be acceptable. The louder the witnesses shout at us the more we must get on with fixing the problem and ensure people are respected and treated fairly and properly.