Professor Gerry Boyle:

My colleague Dr. Lance O'Brien who leads this programme may come in on this too.

First, in relation to some of the Chairman's questions, he remarked on the counterpart organisations in Europe that might be involved in these areas. There are several organisations that counterpart Teagasc, for instance, in France it is the Institut National de la Recherche Agronomique, INRA. It does not have an extension or education arm, but it does have a very clear remit in relation to development work and does a huge amount of research on this. It is not directly part of our remit but it is very much complementary to what we do. INRA, along with the University of Wageningen, which is a famous university in the area of development work, would be two of the biggest players. As the Chairman noted, the Scandinavian countries also have their own engagement. We are involved, with the University of Wageningen, in a very interesting project in Ethiopia. It is very important to train the next generation. During the 1960s, Ireland's agricultural development benefited greatly at a technical level from the Kellogg Foundation. Many Irish scientists and people who went on to lead agribusiness, work in universities and so on, were trained through the Kellogg Foundation in the early 1960s and that benefited subsequent generations. That is where we see our role now, for example in training up young PhD students. In collaboration with the University of Wageningen, we trained three people in the area of potatoes, not only in the technical side of potatoes but also, very importantly, in the social context such as the systems of potato cultivation and forth. Of the three, two have graduated and one will graduate shortly. Hopefully they will go back into their own communities and train the next generation. There is a long-term pay off in upgrading expertise.

The Chairman also raised an issue that we would feel is very important. Extension and advice is all about learning, it is a form of education. We see significant parallels in the farmer field schools that are successful in many African countries. It is a concept promoted strongly by the World Bank. It is very similar to our own discussion group model that we have here in Ireland. We think they are successful because, for instance, when one introduces a new variety into a farming community, farmers are very cautious people. For farmers in developing countries, it can often be a matter of life and death. A new variety might have fantastic credentials in terms of yield but it could have risks associated with it. Farmers have to be very sure that in supplanting the old variety, they are not creating problems for themselves with a bad year from a bad harvest, for instance. They want to discuss the potential implications of, for example, introducing a new variety with their peers. Farmer field school is a hugely important component in transmitting knowledge.

Some of the specific points raised by Deputy Maureen O'Sullivan are important. Some of her questions and comments related to nutrition. We are at one side of the equation, on the production side, and we are conscious that there is a whole other agenda around access to quality resources, which is critically important. Something I often use as an example is how when we would measure the agricultural outputs in the dairy sector ten or 15 years ago, we would have talked about litres of milk produced, but now we refer to milk solids, which is the current metric. Increasingly, particularly in countries which suffer food security challenges, we need to talk about nutritional value, and nutritional measures such as calorific content. We are coming to that understanding ourselves. There are different varieties which have quite different outcomes in a productivity measure relative to a nutritional measure. That is why a product such as dairy is hugely important. It is such a nutritional product for many of these communities that one can see the importance in a development context of focusing on the thing that is the real problem, namely the need to improve nutritional levels, and that in programme design one focuses on the correct metric.

Deputy O'Sullivan referred to the importance of biodiverse farming systems and their relationship to nutrition. That is not something that we have formally researched. While we do some work on nutrition, most of our work is focused inside the farm gate. We have done some very interesting work on the impact of biodiversity on the yields of crops and of grass in particular. There is a very strong relationship and the more diverse the varieties and cultivation systems, the more improved and variable the yield. I imagine that would extend equally to nutritional metrics. We have all learned the importance of local knowledge. The model of the development worker as the preacher was scotched a long time ago. One could argue that we had that traditionally in Ireland in the agricultural context, where the expert had all the knowledge and their role was to pass it on to the recipient. We know that is a flawed model. It never works. A colleague defines it very well, and says that a transmission of knowledge is like a game of tennis; one has to connect, and it is a two-way process.

On the use of local fertilisers, it is something I would certainly endorse. Chemical fertilisers and their judicious use have transformed agriculture; they have transformed Irish agriculture but we know there are environmental implications. There are also cost implications, access is a significant issue in many countries. We also know, and have learned a great deal from our research on the importance of using organic fertilisers efficiently. In our own system, in recent years, in many intensive agricultural systems, the consumption of chemical fertilisers has declined and farmers are making far better use of organic fertilisers. Our research has demonstrated, for instance, how time of application and mode of application are critical to enhancing efficiency. That type of knowledge is transferable. We strongly advocate the judicious use of organic manures and so on.

I do not really have any comment on the frozen chicken trade, unless my colleague does, which I doubt. It is not our area but I can see the dilemma. Many of these trade-offs arise in this area.

Deputy O'Sullivan referred to contact she has had with the Nepalese community. We would be delighted to talk to them.

Again, we do not have a remit on coastlines, unfortunately. It is something that might be taken up with our sister organisation, Bord Iascaigh Mhara. One thing one can notice about these communities is that they are fantastically entrepreneurial. They do not engage in any one activity, there is a whole portfolio of activities. They do not segregate activity in the way that we have to, from an organisational perspective. As the Deputy noted, it is not just the food value but also the potential use of seaweed for fertiliser, animal feed and so on.

Senator Gabrielle McFadden asked a question in replying to which I could delay the committee at great length. However, what may be pertinent for it are some examples of small projects. One that comes to mind immediately, apart from the potato project, is a project in which we are engaged on a small scale in Eritrea. Its Minister for Agriculture visited Teagasc a couple of years ago. He is an interesting man who is committed to promoting the interests of the smallholder, at whom Eritrea has a policy directed, under which the government has a scheme under which it donates to families a young heifer that is about to calf. The deal is that the family have to donate the second calf to another family and so on. We have worked with it to help in that regard. The biggest problem which is common across interventions. particularly in agricultural projects, is that because of the lack of knowledge, while there is the will to give the cow, there is no information on how it is to be fed, managed and maintained. That is where we come in. We work with a small number of families to help and advise them on the nutrition of the animal and the growing of the fodder needed, etc. What is really heartening is that people are very quick to learn. I remember meeting one family with eight children. Not alone did the cow provide sufficient milk for the family but, for the first time, there was also a small surplus which the family could sell and then buy other necessities. We are trying to expand that model.

Amazingly, there are always entrepreneurial individuals to be found in these countries. Individuals involved in the private sector see opportunities to aggregate in the collection of milk, for example, and start a small processing activity. We hope to help projects and to that end have been in touch with Irish companies that have been hugely generous. We spoke to the chief executive officer of Dairymaster, Dr. Edmond Harty. It is willing to support the provision of infrastructure for the collection of milk which is a huge challenge in the countries mentioned because of transport difficulties. It might lead to small-scale yoghurt or cheese enterprise developments. The smallest intervention can make a difference.

Dr. O'Brien might like to comment on the international organisations.