Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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I wish to continue on similar lines. The staff of the section 39 organisations are not regarded as public servants but I presume they received cuts to their salaries and wages. Is that acknowledged? I presume it is. There is a bit of a shady area here in regard to how the cuts were imposed on those involved in the section 39 organisations. Was there a bloc cut to the grant right across the board, reducing it by X amount? Was any undertaking given as to when it might be restored? Did the instruction refer to a cut to salaries and wages or did it state "excluding cuts to salaries and wages" at the time the cuts were imposed generally across the services in 2010 or whenever? Was any indication given as to when restoration would take place, if ever? We have raised this question with other organisations also.

Does the HSE recognise that restoration is legitimate and must be dealt with? Is it recognised that services may suffer, either through industrial action or by virtue of people moving to other employment, thereby leaving service gaps as a result? What is the HSE's response to that?

In the HSE's budget for 2018, is any reference made to the possibility of having to make provision under this particular heading? I presume provision was not made. What other areas of a similar nature were left without any such provision, to the delegates' knowledge? For instance, were there competing organisations of a similar nature that might have been left out of the equation? On what basis did the HSE conclude that there would be no repercussions? We recognise the difference between the public and private sectors. The private sector staff had to receive cuts to their salaries and wages also. In light of an overall evaluation of the services provided by the section 39 organisations, on what basis was it presumed that the organisations could seamlessly continue to provide services without pay restoration, for whatever reason?

Is it recognised that the mortgage and rent payments of people who were employed directly or indirectly through the section 39 organisations might have increased in the past five to seven years? Was that not a consideration in the determination of the response, either by the HSE, the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform, or both? I emphasise that point because it affects everybody.

Reference was made to benchmarking. Benchmarking occurred as a result of the cost of living becoming so high that public servants, and even private sector staff, could no longer subsist. Therefore, there was a top-up, which in turn created further problems far down the road. The same thing is coming to the fore again. I refer to the aftermath of cuts that were brought to bear on people in the workforce providing a particular service, in this case through section 39 organisations.

Who else does work currently undertaken by section 39 organisations, and what will the likely cost be in the event of it having to be delegated elsewhere?