Mr. Paul Ginnell:

I agree with what Deputy Haughey says on environmental policy. There are improvements, in the area of equal pay for equal work in social policy and in a number of other areas. There are good things the European Union has been doing. Our organisation also is not seeking to end the European Union. What we are looking to do is bring it back to its values. I stated earlier the EU held social values among its core objectives and we seek to make the EU live up to those in many ways.

When push came to shove and the crisis hit, it showed in a sense that the EU, the Commission and the European Central Bank in their dealings in particular, went back to what it seemed to know best. We also met those institutions. They were clear on their programmes and what they wanted to achieve. It was impossible to get them to look at the social implications and social impact of those policies. One could ask, "Who was responsible?" We had that debate as well as to whether these were Government policies or were being driven by the Commission and by the troika. We never fully got to the bottom of it.

The EU itself, when it came to the pillar of social rights and the background to it, accepted that in the past decade as the crisis was hitting, it forgot about its own social goals, social values and social policy and went back to solely focusing on fiscal and economic policy. It admitted this as being partially responsible for why inequality was growing and why poverty levels had reached one quarter of the total of the EU population. The EU, or at least the Commission, accepts that and the institutions accept that.

Now the question is what do we do to address that. Both of us mentioned this sixth scenario. Both of us mentioned the importance of impact assessment, not only at European level but at national level, because, of course, the member states play an important role in this. Therefore, there are elements in respect to the future. I acknowledge the pillar of social rights is in many ways a soft policy. That is what is visible now in respect of social policy at a European level.

It important that this links with economic policy and that they are consistent. It is also important, however, that all member states now push forward with making sure the pillar of social rights is a roadmap for a more social and equitable Europe. Otherwise, it will be seen as having failed again. We have had the Lisbon strategy, under which poverty levels at the end of the noughties were the same as they were at the outset. There was the Europe 2020 strategy to reduce poverty by 20 million, but we are still back where we were at the beginning of that commitment. Now we have a pillar of social rights. It is really important that we push forward in showing that the EU can be social. That is key to the belief people have in the European Union. Some member states are really up against it as regards fighting off those on the far right who are using the negative impact on people's lives to influence the type of politics they support. The EU is at a key moment in terms of trying to make that change.

When it comes to looking at the future of Europe and the different options available, we have to examine what that means and not just use it as a window dressing. President Juncker in his state of the Union address talked about the wind being in the sails as if everything has been resolved and we are sailing off to a new, bright future. The Chairman was talking about how the economy is growing. It is the same sort of language. We really need to look at the reality for people and to make sure that in moving forward, we are addressing the social issues as well as the other issues the EU faces.