Catherine Murphy (Kildare North, Social Democrats)
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The Citizens' Assembly made a specific recommendation on this particular aspect. The points made today by the witnesses were well made. Much of the expertise shared with the committee on this issue indicates how important this area is.

The Stay Safe Programme was introduced following reports of appalling child abuse. It came directly out of a religious ethos and a group of people who were trusted but whom it was found could not be trusted. I accept the point on the need for programmes to be age specific but I do not think we have moved on in so far as that ethos is still getting in the way of delivery of sex education. Delivery in this regard is very contained. Sex education should be about not only pregnancy and disease but about inculcating positive attitudes in people.

The witnesses have told us that they have studied the research in other countries but that research does not matter if schools do not have the ability to deliver programmes without the interference of an ethos in that delivery. We have an unusually high rate of religious patronage of schools. We should be looking to the best outcomes and experiences in other countries in terms of well-rounded individuals who have a good understanding of issues, do not run with the herd and are independent. We heard earlier that for some people sex education was a great experience and for others it was a terrible experience. The experience was hit and miss, depending on the teacher delivering the programme.

In regard to sex education, a life survey undertaken by the Department of Education and Skills in 2015 found that 48% of primary and 55% of secondary schools indicated that they relied to some extent on external agencies. The external agencies aspect is incredibly important. There must be some degree of understanding of who those agencies are in terms of ethos. Based on the aforementioned figures, there is a very high level of intervention. The Department is getting very good evidence from other countries, on the basis of which the NCCA sets the curriculum, but it has no control over how this programme is delivered. How then can the witnesses say that there is good-quality sex education? In my view, this programme needs to be something different in many different environments such that it is not possible to say it is a uniform programme across the education system.