Ms Liz McDermott:

I think there is certainly an experience of dehumanising which can happen. Phrases like "anomaly" and "fatal foetal abnormality" - to describe human beings in that way is insulting. I think what the Senator is asking is if there genuinely can be non-directive counselling if we are putting abortion on the table and if we have a Constitution that forbids abortion and upholds the right to life of the unborn, should our counselling therefore be directed towards that. Yes, I would agree. I think doctors are in a difficult position. The provision for the availability of information about abortion is a fine line for them to walk, perhaps. They would know experientially that women do travel to England and they do not want to appear to be judgmental or, in other words, to tell a woman what to do. That is the dilemma we are in.

I heard it said that we have an abortion service and we outsource it to the UK. We do not provide abortions other than on the very limited grounds of the 2013 Act. I would love for more women not to feel they need to make that choice. Deputy Daly said that most women are happy to make that choice. I have to say I have encountered women, and groups that I have worked with have encountered women who say: "I do not want to do this but I have no choice." That might be because they have no practical supports, they have nothing ahead of them, the boyfriend is not interested or whatever. There can be myriad things. In terms of directive counselling I think doctors should be encouraged and they need to be almost given permission to be more definite in the encouragement that they give.

It meant a lot to me to have the scan doctor actually come back from Arklow - I think he was doing a clinic there - to see me in the hospital. He said he had just been up in the baby unit and had seen John and that John was lovely. It was a humanising and compassionate interaction and it meant so much to me. He was the only one in the whole structure of that hospital. It was like the rest of them just felt they just could not go near this. I think there is an awkwardness that exists.