Mr. Shane O'Reilly:

Senator Paddy Burke has spoken about the issue of people stepping out of council meetings and there being no one there to have a meeting. However, what we are in effect being asked to do in this Bill is to engage in a crystal ball syndrome. How we can be asked as local authority members to foresee the future in two years is absolutely beyond me. That is what we are being asked to do in this Bill and it makes absolutely no sense. Senator Davitt asked where we see ourselves without secretarial support etc. I refer back to an article in one of the national newspapers last week when the announcement was made by the Department regarding vouched and unvouched expenses for councillors as well as the new municipal district grant. The headline stated "€5,000 windfall for local councillors". It is not. It is absolutely not. However, the public thinks that we as councillors are on this massive gravy train and that we are getting massive amounts of money. There would those who wonder, if we are getting all this money, why are we fighting about a bit more scrutiny over the issues we need to report and declarable interests etc.

It is often lost in the debate that we as councillors pay PRSI and USC. It was not up until a few months ago that we were entitled to the State pension. Prior to that we were not. We have had many councillors who have given more than 40 years service, and when they retired after putting on a stamp for all those years, they were entitled to nothing. Mr. O'Connell hit the nail on the head. We are asking the Oireachtas Members to cry stop. There is not much more we can take as councillors. That is being totally and utterly honest. I have no doubt that the Members have been doing their best. However, today we are here once again with another raft of nonsense that is being put on our shoulders as councillors. To be fair, Senator Conway-Walsh asked whether it will prohibit diversity. Diversity is going very fast. Mr. O'Connell has spoken of a haemorrhaging of people out of our councils. It is happening day in, day out.