Seán Fleming (Laois, Fianna Fail)
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We are joined by the Comptroller and Auditor General, Mr. Seamus McCarthy, who is a permanent witness at the committee. He is accompanied by Ms Georgina O'Mahony, deputy director of audit. We have received apologies from Deputy Mary Lou McDonald.

The first item on the agenda is the minutes of the meetings of 24 and 26 October. Are they agreed t? Agreed. As any matter that may arise from the minutes will arise in the course of our work this morning, we will move straightaway to the third item on the agenda, which is correspondence.

There are three categories of correspondence. Category A is correspondence specific to this meeting. Items Nos. 869A and 876A are the briefing document and opening statement from the Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment. We will note and publish them.

Category B is correspondence received from Accounting Officers and Ministers in a follow-up on previous meetings, with other items for publication. Item No. 839B( i-ii) is correspondence, dated 24 October 2017, received from Mr. Gordon Bond in the remuneration, industrial relations and pensions division of the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform. It is in response to the committee’s request for information on the terms and conditions of employment of certain State employees. It appears from the information provided that there are approximately 230,000 people who are paid by and entitled to pensions from the State but who are not employees of it.

The same applies to work in agencies funded by the HSE and the schools and universities in the country.

The committee followed up the matter, which was raised by an individual, in respect of teachers in particular. The individual has copied us with other correspondence, which we will deal with later. The individual raised the question of how teachers can be in receipt of State salaries if they are employed by the local school boards of management. It is an interesting question.

From previous correspondence, I understand that the relationship of the State and schools is derived from the provisions of the Constitution. The State has a constitutional obligation to provide for free primary education. The Department says that the State discharges its obligations by paying teachers in national schools owned by the churches; making grants available for renovation, repairs and, at times, building of new national schools; and paying for heating in schools, books and the provision of proper curriculum and appropriate supervision. In accordance with the provisions of the Education Acts, the board of a school manages the school on behalf of the patron. The Minister for Education and Skills operates a payroll service in respect of teachers and special needs assistants on behalf of the boards of management. The Minister has statutory functions in terms of setting terms and conditions of employment for teachers and special needs assistants.

I am unsure whether this is clear in legislation and I would like to receive a note from the Department on the matter. I note the correspondence did not deal with secondary schools or third level institutions. We will seek specific further information on the legal position. The Department has outlined the general position. Can we agree to get a further note on that before we consider it further? Agreed.

The next item is 840B, correspondence dated 24 October, from Barry O'Connor, president of Cork Institute of Technology, providing details, as requested by the committee, regarding a retirement function for the previous president of the college. The retirement function cost a little under €13,000 and was signed off by the outgoing president himself. That is an issue we specifically asked about and I imagine many people will have trouble with it. We will note and publish the correspondence. The details include €4,892 spent on catering and €5,000 spent on tables, frames, drapes, carpets and audio-visual set-up. A total of €1,840 was spent on senior staff invitees at the president's dinner. There were cleaning costs and caretaker overtime costs. A music quartet played as well.

The account has been paid in full but I believe some element of control within the finance section of Cork Institute of Technology must not have been followed. We will note and publish the correspondence. We will ask the Higher Education Authority to examine the controls that were in place and whether it could happen again.