Catherine Murphy (Kildare North, Social Democrats)
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I thank Professor McCarthy for his paper. I too found it interesting. I could see the humanity in it as well, something I appreciate.

Professor McCarthy quoted from the Academy of Medical Royal Colleges in the UK. He noted cases of women who are exposed to strongly negative attitudes towards abortion in general and whose personal experiences are likely to have worse outcomes. I have said before at this committee and elsewhere that I accompanied a group. It was around the time of the Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill. I went to Liverpool Women's Hospital with Doctors for Choice Ireland. It was specifically around the area of fatal abnormalities. I got some indication of the way women were treated in that hospital and environment. They were treated with great humanity and care. That made me feel very ashamed because they did not get that here. One person who was on that visit asked whether there was a difference between Irish women and women from the UK in how they were treated or how they felt. The instant response from the people who took care of those women was that what differentiated Irish women was that they felt judged. I suspect that is exactly the same whether it is a fatal abnormality or a requirement to leave the jurisdiction. They feel different by virtue of the fact that they were forced to leave the country.

Those strongly negative attitudes and presumably the very fact that people have to leave the jurisdiction would feed into those poorer outcomes. Would that be a fair assumption and does the witness see people when they come back who would express views like that afterwards?