Mr. Gerry Edwards:

In respect of the two women who took their complaints to the United Nations Human Rights Committee, Ms Amanda Mellet is one of the founding members of Termination for Medical Reasons, TFMR. Ms Siobhán Whelan was one of the women who received support from Ms Mellet, Ms Ruth Bowie and Ms Arlette Lyons quite early on in the group's history. Ms Mellet provided support to many women while she was still recovering from her own traumatic loss. Ms Mellet and Ms Whelan made the decision to take the complaints against Ireland because Ireland did not seem to be stepping up to its own responsibilities. It was really to show everybody the extent to which women are being brutalised and abused by the eighth amendment and by the lack of response from successive Governments to this issue. I am glad that we have moved on from that point and that we are here today to discuss a solution.

Questions were asked about tests. It is mainly the large Dublin hospitals that offer anomaly scans, the so-called "big scan" between 19 and 22 weeks. Some people get a dating scan earlier on just so as to make sure that sizes and dates are all right and we know, roughly, the rate at which babies are expected to continue to grow. These early scans sometimes pick up anomalies, particularly structural anomalies that are easier to spot, but sometimes what doctors refer to as "soft markers" do not show up until the 22-week scan. Soft markers do not give a clear diagnosis but indicate that there may be developmental issues. Further tests are then involved. Some tests require the taking of samples - chorionic villus sampling, CVS, tests frequently go to Scotland, for example - which means that the parents could be waiting for a further week or so to get a schedule for the test and then to get the results back. They could also be left waiting to get genetic information from an amniocentesis. There might also be a need for an MRI scan. Advanced scans might be required for heart issues, for example, which means that further specialists have to get involved to look at the extent to which the heart is developing incorrectly and whether this might be corrected by surgery in utero or shortly after birth. With some conditions, particularly where there is potential for severe impact on the baby that may not necessarily be fatal, parents need a lot more certainty before they can make a decision. It can take up to two weeks to get an MRI scan. A mother could quite easily be heading into 26, 28 or 30 weeks by this point and this is assuming that she is receiving proper care. In other parts of the country outside of Dublin, however, services can be particularly poor. This is no reflection on the doctors or medical staff involved but rather on the lack of resources. A mother might, for example, go to her GP at 30 or 32 weeks and comment that she has been feeling a reduction in the level of movement. It might be a mother's instinct that something is wrong late on in the pregnancy that eventually gets her referred for further tests.

In the context of the 22-week limit then, there was almost no discussion of severe foetal anomalies at the Citizens' Assembly. The sets of gestational limits put forward to the assembly did not apply to one particular option over another; they were put forward for all of the votes taken by the citizens. There was a lack of information there and they were not terribly well informed with regard to the process of diagnosis and getting a prognosis. Even at that, anyone who is told one's baby has a fatal or very severe condition needs time to think about it. It would be very damaging to put an arbitrary gestational limit in front of parents to the effect that unless they make their minds up before a certain point, they will be unable to avail of services in Ireland. There would be a risk that parents might make decisions more hastily than they otherwise would, possibly resulting in people opting for a termination where they might have realised that this was not perhaps the right decision for them if they had only had more time. Once that decision is made, however, it is made. I consider a 22-week limit, then, to be completely inappropriate and I hope that fatal and severe foetal anomalies would be considered together in this context and recognised as the tragedies that they are. These are wanted pregnancies. Parents who get to the 20-week or 22-week scan intend to bring that baby into their family and anything that intervenes in that is unforeseen. We need to make allowance for that in our legal and health systems in Ireland, rather than trying to find ways of catching people out or of leaving people outside of the safety nets.

I should also point out that some people have negative views about scans and testing almost as though they were a means to screen out and to eliminate. I have 11-year old twin daughters at home who are alive only because of the anomaly scan. They had severe twin-to-twin transfusion syndrome diagnosed at 20 weeks and it was expected that they would both be dead within a matter of days. We were able to travel in order to have life-saving surgery for them which is now available here - we had to travel at the time because of resources rather than because of the law. My daughters are here because we were able to have scans.

While I acknowledge it is the intention of the national maternity strategy to provide these services to women throughout the country, it is not happening quickly enough People may be losing babies as a result of not being able to find out about conditions that could require intervention or necessitate mothers to give birth with the suitably skilled doctors in attendance.

I hope I have answered the questions fully.