James Lawless (Kildare North, Fianna Fail)
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I realise we are under pressure for time. I wish to make a number of points. Some of them may be related and some may not, but I will try to cover them as quickly as possible. The scenario today reminds me a little of a court, when the prosecution has made its case over the course of the day. The pendulum swings and there is another day for the defence. We have had that. It is in reverse order on this occasion. RTE appears to be in the dock somehow in the submissions made, but that is to be expected given the nature of the hearing today. It is one-sided.

In terms of content, there have been references to public service broadcasting and having to carry it. I understand that they must carry it and offer terms and concepts, but it can work the other way as well. Recently, I was in the market for my home TV package. I rang around and talked to different providers. I cannot remember who I was talking to on one call, and it is probably just as well, but the person mentioned that certain channels would not be available if I was on another package or went with another platform. One of the channels I was going to lose was Sky Atlantic, which was a source of concern because it is a good channel. The predominant programme at the time was "Game of Thrones", but the call centre adviser helpfully pointed out that the series was about to come to an end. It was happy days because I could move off the platform, lose the programme and by the time two years went by and a new series was made, move back again. It can work both ways. It is not just RTE that is trying to get the number one spot, Sky Atlantic can be in the mix as well fighting for coverage. It can dictate a viewer's choice of platform.

Another point was mentioned by Deputy Dooley, and Mr. Moat talked about it as well. I wonder if we could be missing a trick in this debate. One of the issues that comes up is predominance and Mr. Wheeldon - I will return to his other comments shortly - spoke about the priority in terms of programming on the schedule. RTE One is number one at present. Could it be number 501 if it does not play ball, dirties its bib or things do not work out so well commercially? What implications will there be and what dire consequences will that have for the company?

If I talk to my teenage children about the broadcasting schedule and ask them if they want to look at the TV guide when I buy the newspaper at the weekend, they look at me as if I have two heads. They do not understand the concept of a TV scheduling guide or how that works. They are buried in their iPhones, iPads or other electronic devices consuming media. Some of those have been mentioned, such as Netflix, and are well understood, but there is also YouTube and a variety of other platforms that I will not try to name. That is relevant today and tomorrow and probably will be ten years hence. As the discussion on our consumption patterns moves on I wonder how relevant the schedule will be. We might be getting tied in knots about something that might not be as relevant a couple of years from now.

Mr. Wheeldon spoke on behalf of Sky international, I presume. It was not Sky Ireland in any event. He made a number of comments and I agree with what Deputy Dooley said. He seems to be teeing up a David and Goliath battle between RTE, the State broadcaster in Ireland, and Sky international and the great power that colossus could bring to the table. That is not a great way to approach a legislative assembly. As Deputy Dooley said, if we were to take that speech verbatim we might as well shut up shop here, fold the tent, walk out the door and give up on the whole thing. It was a draconian spectacle. It reminds me of advice I got when I first got involved in politics - when one is having a debate or interaction with somebody who is in a position of influence, one is there to win the vote not the argument. That might be a good point for everybody to take away from this meeting.

On content, we touched on the idea of whether it is public service broadcasting or public service content. However, there is also content which the public service broadcaster offers and which might not necessarily fit strictly within the definition of public service broadcasting. It could be quality, sought-after content of a different nature. I note the submission from Screen Producers Ireland, which has a number of concerns about the proposed approach. If I understand matters correctly, its members would be in favour retransmission fees. They refer to things such as the cable copyright exemption and the fact that much of the content its members produce is made available through national stations. They would lose out on that revenue or funding income were it not to come to pass.

That brings me to my final question. There is an intuitive attractive argument that if one pays to create something, be it a manuscript, TV programme or piece of music, it is a fundamental concept that one owns that or some right to royalties from it and that if one lets somebody else produce it, be it on a stage, play it at a concert or reproduce it on a TV platform, they should pay for it. That appears to be intuitive. I am not saying that I am taking a position on the Bill, but it appears to be an intuitive argument. To follow through on that, and perhaps I am asking the wrong people and the question should be directed to RTE, where does the money go? If retransmission fees kick in and if we go along with this argument, and there is an instinctive intuitive rationale to that argument, they should carry through to the content creators and producers and the continuation of that indigenous resourcing. Perhaps, in fairness, that is not a question for the witnesses but for the other side of the table, but I have voiced it in any event.