Richard Bruton (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael)
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I thank members for the comprehensive range of questions. The rapid build approach was introduced in 2008. After planning permission was obtained, the contractor did the design and build work. The contractor signed off in 2008 that the buildings were compliant with the terms of the fire certificate. However, defects were found in a particular school in the batch from 2008. The Department then undertook to conduct an audit of the other schools in the batch. It's approach was to deal with the fire officer for the school and pursue the contractor to undertake the necessary work. I understand the contractor indicated that it was being undertaken. When a subsequent inspection occurred, however, it was discovered that it had not been undertaken. That is what led to the Department stepping in and contracting to have the work undertaken.

The new protocol has addressed the deficiency of not informing schools and school patrons. It requires in all cases where there are significant fire issues the school board and patron to be informed. That is the approach being taken on every issue that comes to our attention. It includes fire issues on snag lists, or applications to undertake emergency or summer works or audits. They will all go through the new internal committee which was established to make sure no issue would be missed with a fire safety dimension, to be assessed, to ensure a protocol will be followed and the school will be informed, as I outlined in my opening remarks.

In response to Deputy Thomas Byrne's question about works where there have been refusals, applications are received to undertake summer and emergency works which may have a fire safety dimension.

They will be refused where, for example, there is already an adequate alarm system in place and it is not necessary to replace it or where there was some dimension of add-on to the level of fire alarming and safety lighting and those additional works were not approved or it could have been an electrical upgrade. I will ask the new internal committee to make sure that the criteria being used in all these cases are robust and that no case is missed. Each case would have been examined to see if it was appropriate for funding under the scheme.

The Deputy also asked whether standards are slipping. Under the new building regulation introduced in 2014, the certification process has been upgraded. It is no longer the contractor certifying that this has been done at the hand-over. There is now an additional obligation on the professionals concerned to individually certify that the work has been completed to those standards and in accordance with the fire certificate issued at the time of construction.

As I indicated in my opening remarks, to strengthen that, we have written to all the professional bodies and individuals involved in contracts. Deputy Troy raised the new builds in place. In addition, we have decided that a clerk of works will be appointed to be the eyes and ears of the Department to ensure that as the construction is conducted every element of the certificate is complied with. We do not have an indication that the standards are slipping but we are taking every step to make sure that the standards are at the highest level.

In respect of the freedom of information request and why audits were not released, the decision on freedom of information is entirely independent. It was made by an independent officer in accordance with the normal process. The approach we are taking for the future is not to publish such audits but to pursue a protocol for snagging or audits. It is first to assess the seriousness of the issue. If it is serious there will be consultation with the fire officer and the school will be informed. The school will then decide, as it sees fit, based on each individual case, how it informs the school community. We will not as a routine publish every request for fire issues. We are taking this new approach which we believe is robust and I think it is the correct approach to deal with this.

Deputy Catherine Martin asked how the representative audit will be conducted and how Western Building Systems will be audited. I assure her that 100% of Western Building Systems will be audited. The issue of sub-contractors does not really arise because the main contractor has the responsibility but we will conduct a 100% audit going back to 2003.

In respect of the representative audit of another 30 buildings, they are being selected to ensure they have mix based on where there would be, if one likes, a risk-weighted. we will look, in particular, at rapid builds as that is where these issues have arisen. It will be a representative audit. Given that it will be a representative sample of that size, we will be able to complete the work by January and at that point we will take decisions as to whether that reveals exposure in certain types of build and we will make decisions at that point as to whether an additional audit should be undertaken.

The issue of saying children were not in danger in these schools was based on a discussion with the fire officer in the context of the audit. The audit revealed that the fire retardation period was not being fulfilled.

We understood it was more than 30 minutes, but it had not reached the 60 minute requirement. The fire officer had not deemed it to be dangerous. Obviously, with the fire officer, we were determined to ensure the defects would be addressed.

As to who is responsible for the defects, that is an issue which will have to be examined based on legal advice. In some cases we have decided that simply going back to the original builder and requesting for some of the elements to be repaired would not be the best outcome for the school. We have decided to contract for new fire doors with entirely new units rather than carry out repairs in order that we will be 100% confident the new units being installed are of the highest standard. That means that we are meeting the cost involved rather than pursuing whatever hold we have over a contractor to undertake the corrective works. At the end of the day, who is responsible and what costs we can recoup are matters on which we are taking advice from the Office of the Chief State Solicitor.

As the Chairman stated, there should have been earlier notification of the schools and that will happen in the future. We have changed the approach in the light of our experience and it is the right one.

On whether it is an issue of resources, it is not. All cases where we have various programmes to deal with the issue will be dealt with where there is any question of a risk to a child. Resources will not prevent intervention. We always prioritise such cases. One of the elements of the new protocol I have put in place is that there will be an internal fire safety committee which will comprise experts. Every case, whether it involves a snag list with a fire safety issue or an application, an audit or whatever else, will go through the expert committee to ensure nothing will be lost, appropriate action will be taken and it will be prioritised within budgetary constraints.

Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett asked whether Western Building Systems was eligible to apply for further contracts. It can. The rules under which tendering occurs are very strict as to when an individual or a contractor can be disallowed from participating in the process. They include where someone has committed offences or undertaken activities involving misrepresentation, undue influence on procurement procedures, grave professional misconduct or agreements to distort competition-----