Victor Boyhan (Independent)
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I thank Dr. Murphy and Dr. Hearne for their presentations this morning but more importantly, for their report. It is a serious piece of research and it raises many issues. There are the five key issues the witnesses discussed, namely, prevention, stocks and flows, emergency housing, HAP - which was discussed in great detail and about which I share many of their concerns - security of tenure and the difficulties where tenants are walking the streets trying to identify a place in HAP. I happen to live in Dún Laoghaire and I can tell the committee that HAP accommodation cannot be found. These people go back to the housing authority the next day and are told they need to go back out again, to get up a bit earlier and go on daft.ie. These people do not even have a battery, never mind a plug or the ability to power up an IT platform. They are simply demoralised.

There are places all around the country where rents are much higher than others and the witnesses have raised many concerns. The reality is that it is Government policy. HAP is a principal Government policy in respect of housing.

That needs to change. I would be interested to hear about the witnesses' advocacy and campaigning in that regard.

I want to touch on a few of the other issues referred to. The witnesses said the fastest, most effective way to prevent homelessness was to build houses and strengthen security of tenure. I agree except that it is not the fastest way. The reality is that it is taking time. It is a slow process to roll out and it needs to happen faster. That is the reality of it. However, it is the most effective approach. We need to avail of our landbanks and State assets in real estate. We need to roll out the delivery of all forms of housing, be it private, affordable or social. Let us not draw a distinction. People are having difficulty accessing all forms of housing. The witnesses said they would like to see the establishment of a new semi-State Irish affordable homes company as proposed by the National Economic and Social Council and detailed in the Nevin report. We have recently heard about NAMA or the Government coming up with suggestions about that body's role in all of that. I would like to hear the witnesses' comments. I am not sure that NAMA is particularly the right vehicle, given its history, to be doing this but I would be interested to hear what the witnesses have to say. The witnesses said greater clarity is needed on HAP tenants and who sources them. They might just share some of those experiences and what alternative there is in terms of local authority obligations and responsibilities.

The biggest difficulty I have with the presentation was what was said about hubs. It is a little disingenuous and unfair to suggest hubs are potentially the next Magdalen laundries. That is just carrying it a bit too far. I had to bring an elderly man in his 70s to a hostel recently. He had never been in a hostel before but had lost his home and his family through various circumstances. He was in need of a home. The first thing he said when he stepped into my car was that he was afraid and that he feared for his safety. He was not talking about the wallpaper on the wall, a roof, or a two-storey, one-storey or bed-sitter dwelling. He was talking about being afraid. He said he did not mind going into support accommodation but he wanted to be secure. Security was, strangely, more important than a roof over his head. That is something I learned on that journey into town. I have had the experience of having to bring people to hostels, which have been terrible places. They have met people outside the door and been in fear. Anything has to be better than what we called "wet hostels" and had in the past.

I am not saying it is a long-term solution and it needs to be something the Government clarifies. It is a short-term response, which we need to emphasise, to an emergency need for people who are homeless and, in many cases, destitute. Forget about the circumstances; they need a home and they have children. We have seen time and again on television the one-bedroom accommodation for families. I have spoken to people who have been in hubs and had a good experience. It is not ideal but it is a hell of a lot better than what we are coming from. It is important to get that out there. I agree about the sunset clause and that it would be ideal in 2019 to phase them out, which may be what I would like to hear more about. I take it the witnesses accept that hubs are better than the traditional emergency homeless accommodation we have had in the last two or three years. While I accept that it is not enough, it is an improvement, which is worth noting. It is not the panacea or solution and I agree with the reference in the presentation to the possibility of a sunset clause and phasing these hubs out. That is positive. It is also important that people go into hubs and are given a care or support plan and some guarantees about their transition from that hub to more permanent accommodation which is suited to their needs. I refer to accommodation that is suitable to their needs because in this great debate about social housing we have lost sight of that idea of accommodation that is suited to their needs at this particular time. That is something about which we have to be realistic in our housing policy. I would appreciate it if the witnesses would touch on those points.

Finally, I agree with 99% of what the witnesses are saying. It is positive and I am delighted that they have come here to share their experience and research. They have put a spotlight on it, which is positive. All of us across the room are open to new ways of looking at this issue and addressing it, regardless of ideology. The final point about power, voice and participation goes for every one of us. It is really important and valid that the people involved are empowered and part of the decision-making process. However, it is a slow process. Can the witnesses set out some of the weaknesses of the few hubs they have seen in recent times? Can they identify additional matters that need to be addressed in respect of those hubs?