Mr. Ken Fleming:

No. The intense running involved in fishing, irrespective of which species is being sought, requires a 24-hour operation. In any 24-hour operation, the shifts are broken up into three shifts of eight hours or two shifts of 12 hours or some other division. As there is no rule or legislation, however, which demands a minimum number of crew to operate the vessel, it can be sailed with as small as crew as one thinks one can get away with. If a vessel is operating for 24 hours, those on board cannot rest. Everybody, including the skipper, is at work for that particular period of time. When the skipper finally reaches the barrier and has to give in, he will go to bed because he has that choice, and one of the other unfortunates on board will continue to steer the boat and haul until the skipper resurfaces. The guys with whom I have learned to work are getting approximately two to three hours sleep in every 24 hours. Those vessels are out there and it is just a matter of luck that they are not drifting in front of other boats and ferries and causing major accidents.

If we review a permit scheme, as I said at the outset, it would be meaningless because Deputy Coveney's task force was dismantled behind our backs. No one told us. The actual task force, which was put in place to bring all the State agencies together in order that we would not have this multiplicity of secretaries and offices and Deputies, is gone. They thought we would not find out. That did not happen by mistake. That was deliberate. They believed we would run out of steam. My organisation has been dragged so far into this that we have put millions aside. We will stay for as long as possible.

In respect of Senator Reilly's comment, we have attacked the agencies by way of the retail outlets. We are working on a memorandum of understanding with all of the European supermarkets. If we are forced to pull the trigger, it will bring the fishing industry in Ireland to an end and it will disgrace us. We have sent submissions to Europe. We are preparing a formal complaint against the State. This is not something which an Irishman does against his own country. It is all because we cannot energise any Department in Ireland or any Government agency, from the Garda National Immigration Bureau to anybody else. They are confiscating passports. I have been on Burgh Quay getting passports belonging to unfortunate poor individuals handed back because the gardaí took their passports, which they had no right to do. The gardaí themselves are exercising control over these people in some circumstances.

These people are wandering around without documentation in fear that the next garda they meet will tip them on the shoulder, arrest and deport them. I do not have any training but when I went into the office with Pádraig Yeates and asked why a person's passport was taken, I was told to wait for a moment. A garda then brought the man out, asked him to sign a form and gave him an extra six months to stay in the country. He handed back his passport, tapped him on the head and said he hoped he would find a job on a fishing boat. This was done in my presence and I would testify to that anywhere. This happened in the Garda National Immigration Bureau, GNIB, office. What in the name of God is going on and what was going on before the Migrant Rights Centre Ireland and I got involved in this issue? This is an indictment on the GNIB. I once saw Mr. Yeates offer his hand to an Egyptian fisher, who shied away from shaking hands because he had lost a hand. I had to tell Mr. Yeates that he did not want to show that a hand was missing. When we asked what was being done about the loss of his hand, the fisherman said he could not do anything as the boat owner had told him he was illegal and if he opened his mouth, he would be deported. He said he could not go back to Egypt.