Ms Breda Corr:

I shall answer the questions that were addressed to me. I shall also answer the question on educational psychological reports even though it was not specifically addressed to me. In terms of the cost, diagnosis and difference in provision, the National Educational Psychological Service should have more staff in order to ensure there is a similar provision everywhere and perhaps additional provision elsewhere. We definitely need more psychologists.

The second question was no addressed to me specifically. Deputy Nolan talked about access to therapies. We suggested in our submission that the therapies would be provided on a school cluster basis. Unfortunately, I am not so sure there are enough therapists of that nature in the country and there is probably a little training needs to be done.

Capitation was addressed by both. It is hard for me to suggest a limit but there are a couple of points that I would make. The capitation was €100 more per pupil when I started in this job in 2009 and that is a big difference. Say it was approximately €900. Roughly, it is within that range. I mentioned a training fund. The capitation is all right for heat, light etc., but I mentioned the cost of insurance. We need to encourage schools to get involved in more procurement. We need to make it easier for them which we are trying to do.

Linking it to school outcomes is very difficult. I do not know what the acceptable rate would be but it is an exercise that could be done. We did an exercise a number of years ago on linking it to the numbers. We undertook a comparison between mainstream and special schools and it was hard to come up with a figure. However, some examination could be done. On the previous occasion I was here I mentioned that it might be something that the financial services support unit, when it comes into being, might investigate. It might be a good idea. Perhaps it is a job for them in the future because they will have an idea of the costings.

The following was addressed to Ms Pauline Dempsey. We are very aware of the shocking high level of injuries. That is a question that I would get on a daily basis. As for the immediate measures, the Chairman talked about the training. We are trying to work with the Office of Government Procurement and the schools procurement agency to look at this issue of that map of training which is prevention. A teacher is trained, for example, in Pauline's school, and if he or she leaves that school then he or she has to train again. There are significant costs involved. We are looking at doing that in a different way. I am not sure how that can be addressed, but we are looking at it and the cost of insurance.

There are a lot of issues with regard to the capitation. Suffice it to say the reduction of €100 in that time makes a big difference.

An issue Deputy Catherine Martin addressed was the guidelines for the short school day. Unfortunately, there are no guidelines. We got legal advice on that. Really, it is very sticky because it is technically a suspension. Much of the time they do it with the agreement of the parents and they will not take a section 29 appeal in that regard. There is a little bit of that. I do not like that shortened school day. Often it is the only thing - related, usually, to behaviour - and there is no choice.

On the level 2 training, the National Association of Boards of Management in Special Education, NABMSE, as an organisation was involved in the level 2 training and launched it at conference a long time ago. It is one of the better pieces. It was a good investment for us, with the NCCA, at the time and a number of people were represented on the level 2 committee.

On the training itself, the strike did us a favour in special schools, I am sorry to say. I never raised this issue with anyone I knew in the other unions. In fact, all the teachers in special schools are in the INTO and they were not prevented from doing the training. We got a year of that training concentration which was marvellous. It does not happen too often. We were delighted to be involved. That is why we pushed the level 2 as well.

The level 2 training is probably prevalent enough in the schools whose staff are in one particular union - I will not mention which union here. There is some ongoing training. I am located in the Kildare Education Centre where a lot of the junior certificate training team come and I get regular informal updates. It is great to have that there. However, there are some mainstream schools that have the level 2 training in the school. They just introduce it as another element and it is not called level 2, but I think it is.

The training is very good. They have these so-called "critical friends" days to which people are invited where one looks at the training and can state, "No, that will not work." They are proactive with the training.

There is something I mentioned earlier that I would like to see. Some of the schools are trying to do level 2 training but they do not have enough specialist teacher hours, the post-primary teacher hours. I would like to see something being done with that, even in conjunction with the ETBs. The Department has not allocated any extra hours for a number of years but we would like to look at that.

Senator Gallagher mentioned the lack of planning at second level. I mentioned that. It would be a problem, to be honest with the Senator, in most parts of the country, where there is very little provision for post primary. I should have looked at the Monaghan matter if I knew the Senator had. One has all these units - I hate that word "units", the definition of which I was asked at one stage here - or classes in primary but one does not have the corresponding number of classes at post primary. That is difficult. There needs to be more incentives given to encourage post-primary schools to set up such classes. As I stated previously, they need a little more than merely being compelled. There was mention of getting the resources straightaway and getting teachers with experience, not those deployed. There is a need for incentives and more long-term planning in the Department.

As to more recognised training for special needs assistants, SNAs, there is a recognised training scheme. There used to be four training schemes that were funded by the Department and recognised through the various third-level colleges. The only one left, which is not funded by the Department, is in St. Angela's in Sligo and it is oversubscribed. There is a cost involved. The schemes need to be reintroduced and there needs to be standard training. Here I will plug our own training for bus escorts. Ms Duggan mentioned it. The Minister of State, Deputy Cannon, a former member of this committee, was the junior Minister when we ran a pilot scheme in Galway in 2013. We had an independent assessment done on that by Dr. Emer Ring in Mary Immaculate College and it was very positive. We chose Galway because there were different aspects, such as rural schools and the only special school as Gaeilge in the country. That actually worked well. We are talking to the Department again. It is proposed that St. Angela's may run with it this year but we would like to have recognition by the Department. We are engaging with them on that basis.

That is probably my lot unless anyone has any questions.