Paul Gavan (Sinn Fein)
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We have. It is very welcome to hear the voice of organised workers for the first time. We have had a number of presentations from employers' groups, including some that I did not know existed. Perhaps that is a reflection on me and my naivety. It is important for the committee to get an idea of how widespread is this problem. I am conscious that some of my colleagues are not present.

The employers' groups have made two contradictory arguments. They have argued that this problem affects a small number of people. At the same time, they have argued that if these changes are made, it will be a disaster for the economy. Mr. Bell has highlighted how widespread the use of if-and-when and zero-hour contracts is in the health sector. I invite the others who are present to talk about how widespread it is in other sectors and to say whether they think it is growing.