Kate O'Connell (Dublin Bay South, Fine Gael)
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I could spend hours discussing this today. My major problem with this is the word "medicinal" in the sense that it is a different argument to decriminalisation or rescheduling of drugs. I want to disclose at the outset that I am a community pharmacist and am registered with the Pharmaceutical Society of Ireland and, as such, have ethical responsibilities in that regard.

I will try to be brief. I see this Bill as undermining the current regulatory frameworks, those being the Health Products Regulatory Authority, HPRA, and the Pharmaceutical Society of Ireland, which are internationally recognised as very competent authorities. There is no question about their capabilities.

I have heard plenty of evidence from Members connected with this, and I understand that one of the witnesses here is a medical doctor, but there is anecdotal evidence, scientific evidence and sound scientific peer reviewed data. We do not form rules and regulations in science based on anecdotal evidence or hearsay. The HPRA is the authority on this - I am not the authority and neither is anyone else in this room - and it has been very clear. There is a complete lack of clinical and scientific evidence to show safe and effective use. I know people who have used cannabis recreationally and for pain relief for years. I am not debating that. The decriminalisation of drugs is a different argument and we can fight that fight on another day.

I clarified this with the Minister yesterday, and the current situation is that for three conditions - nausea and vomiting from chemotherapy, multiple sclerosis, MS, and intractable seizures - people can get access through a consultant neurologist writing a prescription. I was also reassured that the Minister can issue a licence for another condition if a medical consultant prescribes it for a patient under his or her care. If I had a pain in my toe and my medical consultant decided that the only treatment for it was medicinal cannabis, there is a pathway there to do that. Anyone who has a competent, qualified, Irish-registered hospital consultant, who is the person I like dealing with my health care or that of my children because he or she is the expert in the field, and if that person judges that a patient requires this product, there is a pathway to do that. I would not want anyone listening to think that we were trying to prevent the alleviation of people's pain.

Deputy Gino Kenny said this Bill was about safe access to medicinal cannabis. That is a shocking statement when the HPRA has said the data are not there. He also said that we are in the 21st century. Yes we are. Years ago, centuries ago, we used to give random bits of drugs to people and see if they died or lived. We now have in place regulations and procedures for testing and trialling. To my mind, what this Bill is trying to do is circumvent all of the regulatory arrangements we have which are not there to serve us but to serve the public and to safeguard minors as well.

There are so many issues with this. There are a huge number of inconsistencies throughout the Bill. There is inconsistency over the age of what constitutes a minor, which is 16 in one place and 18 elsewhere. On the idea of a certificate and prescription, we have very strict procedures for prescriptions in Ireland when it comes to different schedules of drugs. I am using my own words here, but it says that the books would have to be balanced on a monthly basis. It would be normal procedure that controlled substances would be balanced on a daily basis. I think it is a 24-hour period. These things have to happen.

To return to the science behind it and following on from the Chairman's comment about liability, there is evidence that in adults with epilepsy, ingesting or smoking cannabis can reduce the seizure threshold. As an example, person who has been seizure free for two years takes a particular form of cannabis prescribed by his or her doctor, who might be under pressure to do so, and has a seizure behind the wheel of a car. This is a practical scenario that could arise. If that person has a fit and has a car accident, who is responsible?

I am looking at the Bill and have notes through every bit of it. In one place it refers to the consumer. If this is medicinal cannabis, the people are patients. Even on the first page, before regulations, it refers to the Minister for Justice and Equality. The Minister for Health is the Minister with responsibility for this. I do not understand the certificate. Cannabis-infused products make an appearance along the way.

Let us say this all happened. Why would cannabis have any special status compared with any other controlled substance? We have diamorphine, which has the street name heroin, in the safe. I have it in the safe in my pharmacy. I do not understand the logic of dealing with this drug in any other way to any other medicine.

I think it was last week or the week before that I spoke here------