Ms Gillian Westbrook:

To answer Deputy Penrose, the Department have just processed the late payments. It is frustrating for everybody involved. Farmers that are not being paid by the Department phone us, often every day. We have been talking to the Department to try to solve this problem and to see if we could gather information for them into a database which could correlate to their needs. I do not understand the complexities of the database and I do not want to. I would like to help find a solution. This is not the first time this has happened. Historically, the payment has always been slightly late. This does cause issues. The Department has assured us it is working on it. We certainly believe that.

As I said, the costs associated with the farming system concern this 75% co-funding. It is quite a viable system and there are people making money at it. They are not millionaires but they are very viable. In terms of the consumer aspect to sales, price is relevant. However, discount stores in Ireland are selling 48% of all organic meat sold at retail level in Ireland. The discount supermarkets are upping their game all the time with the range of promotions they offer. It is difficult to say that price would be prohibitive, not that the Deputy suggested it was, but organic food is now more accessible to everybody.

In terms of the rural development programme, RDP, there is an existing target of 5% yet the Department only ring-fences enough money for 2%. In view of that, no one should be surprised that we do not reach 5%. Countries which are more successful in that regard, such as Denmark, allocate about 38% of funding for rural development. More is allocated in the budget than drawn down. They are topping up the funding in order to increase rural development. It is for the Department to say whether that would be viable in Ireland. If we are going to meet those targets, we need more than a slight increase.

I understand what is being said about the Bord Bia logo and inspection system but we are back to the issue about it being based in law. Beef processors and many beef farmers will have Bord Bia approval, as will many people in horticulture and similar areas. However, that logo is not what sells the product. The logo indicates that a product meets the very good Bord Bia traceability system. That is in place for its own purposes but not for the purposes of organic legislation. It is different. The consumer is aware of that.

Export sales are very good. We estimate there has been around €300 million in sales to export markets. Irish sales alone are around €142 million, which is a 23% increase in the year to date. Admittedly, that is from a relatively low base. Horticulture and vegetables, which are always forgotten when talking about organics but are really its grassroots, are up 32% or €6 million. Eggs are up €2.6 million, dairy is up €2.2 million and meat is up €2.2 million. Vegetables, yoghurt and fruit make up 53% of retail sales in Ireland. There is potential in the export market.

About 3.1% of farmers leave the scheme each year. That is a natural fallout which we have seen year on year. Statistics indicate that the farm size of those who leave varies. It is a voluntary scheme. It is not going to suit everybody. If people are not viable then they will leave. I would like to see it at zero, but 3% is relatively acceptable.

In terms of progression, we have a national organic action plan. Every country in Europe with a strong, vibrant organic sector is using a national action plan. It is not a mandatory requirement here but it is a requirement at EU level to have an action plan. There is a European one. Each country then develops their own national action plan. We have an action plan which is a good basis on which to start but it is only a start. We need to build on it. We need to not have a race to the bottom by trying to lower prices and sell to different markets. We need a coherent strategy. Under that strategy, we need to address issues such as bottlenecks in supply, the lack of continuity of supply and Brexit, which we have not begun looking at. A lot of our imported input is coming from the UK. If that is not going to be available there will be a sustainability issue. We hope a sensible agreement will be reached to avoid that scenario. Although there is a requirement within organic regulations that 60% of feed comes from one's own farm , the remaining 40% still has to be sourced. For non-ruminant feeds, there is going to be a much heavier demand on cereal production, which is coming in from the UK. Sustainability requirements are only ever going to increase. That will be a major issue and needs to be looked at. The action plan needs to address that and we need to look at resolving the deficit in supply.

To answer Senator Paul Daly, Brexit is the major challenge. Continuity of supply is going to be a big issue. We regularly address this with our EU farmers' group. A lot of countries have addressed it by removing the cap on organics. The Department may not like that recommendation. If continuity of supply is desired, the 60 ha cap should be taken away so that larger farmers could apply. That approach has been very successful in many countries.

Some of our clients would say that we are victims of products being marketed as "green". There is a lack of understanding of what products are truly organic. That is down to us as well. As certification bodies, we need to enhance understanding among consumers of what organics is about. We intend to do that. We have a marketing launch planned for later this year. It will be a very positive launch which will address some of those issues. Fortunately, we are a big export market and mainland European consumers know what organic means. We can support more and supply more. We fully intend to. We need an action plan. We need a rural development policy that is not capped at 2%. While the 2% is welcome, if that is the limit to our ambition, we need to push for more.

On the nitrates, it is 170 kg with no derogation.