Mr. Brian Kavanagh:

HRI and I take very seriously the obligations relating to taxpayers' money. In respect of the Deputy's point about HRI owning some race courses, I understand the issue and if things are murky, it is my job to clarify them at events like today's meeting. I can meet the Deputy and go through it privately or through the media. There is no differential between HRI-owned tracks and private tracks in respect of the allocation of capital grants, prize money and marketing grants. They are all dealt with equally. Senator Mark Daly will know this. We have three categories of race track. HRI owns a track in both category 1, Leopardstown; category 2, Navan; and category 3, Tipperary. Those tracks are dealt with the same way as other tracks in those categories. One of our functions under the legislation involves operating race courses we own. HRI really became involved in race course ownership because we had to. I mentioned what happened in the Phoenix Park or Baldoyle earlier. As a property, Leopardstown is worth many multiples of what it is worth as a race course so it is logical for the racing authority to own that race course because if it was owned by private individuals, their duty as shareholders of a company would be to maximise the return from that and it would not be through horse racing.

We became involved in owning Fairyhouse when it was effectively bankrupt about ten years ago. This is the home of the Irish Grand National, one of our most prestigious races. HRI had to put together a rescue programme. In my contribution, I mentioned that Punchestown and Fairyhouse overstretched themselves. We get involved in those race courses in the same way as the FAI and rugby authorities own and operate the Aviva Stadium or the GAA operates Croke Park. I understand the point made by Deputy Martin Kenny, namely, how this tallies with private ownership. The only thing I can say is that this is the same as happens in other countries, particularly France. The racing authority in France owns nine of the principal race tracks. Perhaps there is a need for greater clarity or transparency around some of the issues we are dealing with or some of the ways in which we are spending our money. If it is not clear to the Deputy then I must take it that we are not getting the message across and we will have to work on getting that message across more clearly. There is certainly no favouritism regarding HRI-owned tracks and other tracks. I can understand how that would be a perception and we probably have work to do to address that perception. I would welcome the opportunity to meet with the Deputy to discuss the industry in general but also that specific issue because it is a fair point.

With regard to the other point-----