Mr. Dermot O'Leary:

The Deputy is right in that all of our submissions refer to the Department of Social Protection. The reality is that the Department of Social Protection's free travel scheme was frozen in 2009 and there were no new entrants after that initially. As we understand it, no new company could have a contract with the Department of Social Protection between 2009 and 2015. What happened in 2015 is very interesting. The then Minister for Social Protection, Deputy Joan Burton, came under pressure in the Dáil, the people's Parliament, relented and, as we understand it, allowed some private operators to access the scheme. We believe that came on the back of the PSO contract that was awarded between Portlaoise and Cashel. When the NTA put that route out for tender, in the initial contract - this is an important point that is hard to stomach on behalf of those who are entitled to free travel - the successful bidder, M&A Coaches, was told to charge OAPs and those with disabilities 50% of the fare, which caused uproar. As a result, the Minister relented and allowed some private operators in. I do not have any data - I have anecdotal evidence - but we read an article recently in the The Irish Timeswhere Brian O'Donnell for Feda O'Donnell Coaches is quoted as saying, bizarrely, that the Department of Social Protection covers probably 70% of his costs. We consider it would be worth exploring that further. Whether it was a misprint or otherwise, he was quoted in the article.

There seems to be some variation on the ground. The State provider rightly - we would say - carries those availing of the free travel scheme but it does not get paid enough for it. There are then lots of private operators. There is a company in Waterford that I will not name, but people in this room know it, whose bus stop is as close to the Bus Éireann stop as the Deputy is to me. We have evidence of the driver on the private coach telling those who hold free travel passes to go down to the Bus Éireann coach. That happens daily. That is the reality on the ground.