Brendan Smith (Cavan-Monaghan, Fianna Fail)
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Apologies have been received from Senator Billy Lawless. During the first part of today's meeting, Ms Gráinne O'Hara of the United Nations High Commission for Refugees, UNHCR, will address the committee regarding the situation in the Middle East and North Africa, particularly the ongoing humanitarian crisis in Syria. I welcome Ms O'Hara. We are all shocked on a daily basis by the suffering of the people of Syria, particularly the people in Aleppo where the constant bombardment has affected so many lives and thousands of civilians have been killed or injured. The rest of the world has a duty to do everything in its power to ensure this ceases as soon as possible. As everyone in this country is aware, the only way for this to be achieved is through dialogue. While news coverage of the crisis in Syria has diminished somewhat in recent weeks, I am sure the humanitarian issues facing the people in the region, especially the plight of the refugees, are as great as ever. I am glad Ms O'Hara was in a position to clearly transmit that message on the national broadcast media this morning.

After we have heard Ms O'Hara's opening statement, we will invite her to participate in a question and answer session with the members of the committee. I remind members, witnesses and the people in the Visitors Gallery to ensure their mobile phones are switched off completely for the duration of the meeting as they cause interference with the recording and broadcasting equipment in this room, even in silent mode. Today's meeting is being broadcast live on Oireachtas TV and across various media platforms. I remind members of the long-standing parliamentary practice to the effect that they should not comment on, criticise or make charges against a person or body outside the Houses or an official either by name or in such a way as to make him, her or it identifiable. By virtue of section 17(2)(l) of the Defamation Act 2009, witnesses are protected by absolute privilege in respect of their evidence to this committee. If they are directed by the committee to cease giving evidence on a particular matter and they continue to so do, they are entitled thereafter only to qualified privilege in respect of their evidence. They are directed that only evidence connected with the subject matter of these proceedings is to be given. They are asked to respect the parliamentary practice to the effect that, where possible, they should not criticise or make charges against any person or entity by name or in such a way as to make him, her or it identifiable. I ask Ms O'Hara to make her opening remarks.

Ms Gráinne O'Hara:

I am grateful for the opportunity to address the committee this morning on the UNHCR's work in the Middle East and north Africa, particularly the refugee response to the situations in Syria and Iraq. I do not intend to read all of my written statement, which was submitted to the committee in advance of today's meeting. I will pick out some highlights in the interests of having more time for questions and answers. I am the head of the UNHCR's protection service for the Middle East and North Africa region. I operate out of Amman. The team I lead comprises a series of experts on issues like gender, child protection, education and other key thematic functions. Our geographical area of coverage spans the entirety of north Africa, the Middle East, the Gulf and Israel. I will focus this morning on our two largest operations in the region, in Syria and Iraq.

Syria is one of the greatest humanitarian crises of our time. We are now into the sixth year of conflict. The fighting in Syria has caused unprecedented levels of humanitarian need. The disregard for human life and acts of inhumanity on an unimaginable scale that have been seen in Syria and in neighbouring Iraq have led to enormous suffering and destruction. Displacement internal to the region and further afield is one of the fundamental characteristics of both of these crises. It is estimated that 13.5 million people in Syria need humanitarian assistance, including 6.3 million people who have been internally displaced. Some 4.6 million people live in places which continue to be hard for humanitarian actors to reach. As many as 700,000 people are living in besieged areas. This figure has decreased in recent times as a result of the evacuation of Aleppo in the week before Christmas. The consequences of the situation in Syria have a regional dimension that affects all of the neighbouring countries. Over 4.8 million registered Syrian refugees are hosted in Turkey, Lebanon, Jordan, Iraq and Egypt. Turkey is the largest single host country of refugees anywhere in the world.

Syrian refugees continue to need international protection. Host governments, local communities and humanitarian partners, including UNHCR, are continuing to work in support of the respect of the basic rights, protection and physical security of all populations affected by the Syria and Iraq crises, including those stranded at borders.

Over the past year, a number of significant high-profile events including the World Humanitarian Summit in Istanbul in February 2016, and the London conference on supporting Syria and the region in February 2016 have highlighted the need for changes in the way humanitarian crises are funded. The day before yesterday I attended an event hosted by the Finnish Government to launch this year's humanitarian appeal for Syria. That comprises the regional refugee and resilience plan with a price tag of €4.4 billion in response to the needs of the 4.8 million Syrian refugees and the communities that host them. In addition there is the Syrian humanitarian response plan, which is another $3.4 billion.

Funding continues to be crucial to meet refugee needs. While donors have generously contributed some $10 billion to the international appeal since 2012, in recent years the humanitarian appeals have only reached about 60% funding, which, of course, has implications for the programmes carried out by UNHCR, other UN organisations and numerous NGOs that are responding to the Syria and Iraq crises.

I will say some words specific to Iraq which may not get as much coverage in the media as Syria. Alongside Syria, Iraq is one of the biggest operational responses we have in the region. Since January 2014, escalating violence in Iraq has led to the internal displacement of over 3 million people. In addition there are 245,000 Iraqi refugees in the region, half of these hosted by Turkey. At the same time some people are returning to their places of origin in more stabilised locations. However, the sustainability of returns continues to be hampered by widespread destruction of infrastructure and the presence of mines and unexploded ordnance.

Currently the focus of the humanitarian response in Iraq is very much centred on the situation in Mosul. The retaking of Mosul city, which has been under the control of ISIS for more than two years is a primary objective of the Iraqi Government and its allies. Since the start of the military offensive in October 2016, over 162,000 people have been displaced from Mosul and surrounding areas as the military offensive to retake the city advances. As part of the emergency response for Mosul, UNHCR has been heavily involved in the establishment of new camps, the upgrading of existing camps, and the general provision of emergency shelter assistance to persons who have been displaced.

Across the region, key elements of our programmes such as the Syria operation, the Iraq operation and other situations in the Middle East and north Africa, including Yemen and Libya, include such activities as biometric registration. I am referring to the registration of refugees so that we have an accurate database of the number and profile of refugees, which informs the response programmes for which we have just launched this appeal in Helsinki.

Winter assistance is a fundamental characteristic of the response plan. We have been fortunate so far this season in the Syria response plan not to see the freezing temperatures that have been seen in some places in Europe. However, the winter assistance plan is costly. We have many refuges in the neighbouring countries to Syria and Iraq still living under tented accommodation. The winter assistance programme is essential for their survival.

Cash assistance is an increasingly important characteristic of the humanitarian response. Here I refer to the increasing use of cash as a direct means of assistance as a complement to in-kind forms of assistance.

I wish to speak about global responsibility sharing. I have referred many times to the number of refugees and displaced generated by both the Syria and Iraq situations. Particularly in the case of the Syrian response with 4.8 million refugees, the vast majority of them continue to live in the immediate neighbouring countries. As part of global responsibility sharing the UNHCR pursues the use of resettlement to third countries. We have been appealing for an increase in the number of resettlement places. Ireland is among those countries that offers resettlement places to Syrian and Iraqi refugees - a modest, but not insignificant offer of up to 4,000 places, which allows the UNHCR to ensure that some of the refugees most in need with the most acute protection problems have the option to be moved elsewhere out of the region.

I echo the Chairman's opening comments that what is needed in the region and particularly for Syria and Iraq are political solutions to the conflicts and crises that have generated so much humanitarian suffering. The humanitarian response is in a way a reaction to the symptoms of crisis but cannot in itself solve crises. I thank the members of the committee for their attention.

Brendan Smith (Cavan-Monaghan, Fianna Fail)
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I thank Ms O'Hara for her detailed and comprehensive report. She referred to huge number of refugees and internally displaced persons and unfortunately the inadequate donor response. She stated that 60% of the response plans had been funded. Is it 60% of what was pledged by governments in humanitarian aid and assistance?

Ms Gráinne O'Hara:

The 60% represents the average rate of funding for many humanitarian appeals. In the case of Syria, the Syrian appeal of last year was, of course, marked by the very large event in London on 4 February 2016, where significant financial commitments were made. Many of the financial commitments made in London have, in fact, been fully respected. However, the commitments made never reached the full level of the appeal. I have just come from Helsinki where we launched the 2017 appeal. On the refugee side, it amounts to $4.6 billion. The event in Helsinki was not a pledging event; the pledging event will follow at some point in April to be hosted by the European Union in Brussels. We have yet to see what the pledging levels will be for this year's appeal.

Brendan Smith (Cavan-Monaghan, Fianna Fail)
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Generally, we have always been assured that the European Union, as a donor, always met its commitments and what it pledged. Has the European Union honoured what was pledged in respect of these particular crises?

Ms Gráinne O'Hara:

Yes. To the best of my knowledge, the pledges from the European Union have been met. The European Union is fundamental partner to UNHCR and to many other UN agencies in the sense that the European Union is very much engaged through presence of ECHO offices in the region. We have a very close working relationship with them. It is not simply a pledge and then later a cheque comes. The ECHO offices are physically present in the region and work very closely with us in the design and implementation of the humanitarian activities towards which European Union funding goes.

Ivana Bacik (Independent)
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I welcome Ms O'Hara and commend her on her long track record of working with refugees in some of the most dangerous conflict zones for the United Nations over the years. I have followed her career with great interest. I thank her for coming here to give us such a comprehensive overview of the immense scale of the humanitarian crisis, particularly in Syria and Iraq and of the enormous challenge in meeting the humanitarian response that Ms O'Hara has described. The figure of 4.8 million Syrian refugees in neighbouring countries - more than the population of this country - gives us some sense of the scale.

I know all of us are keen to see a more expeditious and speedy resettlement programme in operation here, in keeping with the pledge we have made to take 4,000 refugees from Syria.

I wish to ask a question on Ms O'Hara's concluding comments. The response to the humanitarian crisis and the refugee displacement is a response to the political crisis. Therefore, the only solution to the plight of the Syrian people is a negotiated political settlement. Can Ms O'Hara comment on the likely prospects of such a settlement? Does the Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees have a role in feeding in to the terms of any settlement? Does the organisation play any direct role in that regard?

Ms Gráinne O'Hara:

We do not have a direct role in the sense that the UNHCR is not a participant as in the Astana talks, which have just come to a conclusion. There is intended to be another round of talks, hopefully, in Geneva in early February under the direct auspices of the UN. I should distinguish between the two. The Astana talks came following an initiative of Turkey, Russia and Iran. The next round of talks in Geneva is expected to be under the direct auspices of Mr. de Mistura, the special representative of the UN Secretary General.

UNHCR was not present at the table for those talks, but we made a contribution to that process. It is an obligation of ours to ensure that the voice of refugees is heard. Of course, the talks will address the necessary conditions for options to open up for refugees, including the prospect of returns. This is something we follow closely, especially with respect to our obligation to ensure that the voice of refugees is heard and that the voice of those affected by conflict is heard in the talks to try to resolve those conflicts.

Ivana Bacik (Independent)
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I wish to ask a follow-up question. I apologise for having to leave early. We have heard similar comments in the committee. We have had many hearings on the crisis in Syria. We have heard different views on the role of the Syrian Government and the regime of Bashar al-Assad. Some of us have been critical of that Government. We have received a briefing from the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade that has pointed out the intransigence of the Assad regime and its resistance to efforts at resolution of the crisis in Syria for some time. Moreover, we have learned that it has been guilty of appalling abuses of human rights in its treatment of Syrian citizens – we have put these points to witnesses previously. Can the UNHCR comment on the role of the Syrian Government of Bashar al-Assad?

Ms Gráinne O'Hara:

Senator Bacik is essentially asking a political question to a humanitarian actor. Anyway, I understand the context of the question. As a representative of UNHCR, it is not my business to comment on the role or position of any government. However, clearly the solution to the Syrian crisis has to involve the Syrian Government. It is a fundamental player in everything that has happened during the course of the past six years.

With respect to the extreme violations that have taken place within Syria, the UNHCR, alongside the Secretary General and other actors of the UN, especially our sister agency, the UN High Commission on Human Rights, has constantly spoken out against the violations perpetrated by all sides in the Syrian conflict. The violation of human rights and the suffering of Syrian civilians must be brought to a close as soon as possible.

Darragh O'Brien (Dublin Fingal, Fianna Fail)
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I thank Ms O'Hara and Mr. O'Neill for their attendance. The committee takes this issue seriously. The first hearing of the committee post the general election was used to discuss the refugee crisis and the wider crisis in the Middle East.

Some of us were in Cairo some weeks ago. We had the pleasure of meeting the Secretary General of the Arab League. Ahmed Aboul Gheit made some comments to us that day. It was telling that the continuing imposition of western style democratic values on the Middle East is not welcome there. We simply cannot transpose what happens in western Europe and try to tell people in Libya, Iraq and Syria that this is the way they should lead their lives. When we are considering solutions to this, we should consider the disastrous interventions carried out by Britain, France, USA and other western powers in Libya, Syria and Iraq. This is one of the reasons for the current crisis. There are no blameless actors in the whole tragedy. That is the problem. This view was put to us loud and clear. Europe and the West do not always have the solutions. Our values are not the only correct values and should not be followed necessarily. If we - by which I mean the West - were a little more cautious in our approach over the past 20 years, we might not be dealing with a crisis of the current proportions. Having said that, I commend the UNHCR representatives, their colleagues and all the other agencies on their work in what is a difficult and catastrophic situation.

Ireland has a modest commitment under the resettlement programme. However, the European commitment is modest as well. What is the view of the UNHCR on Europe and the EU response to resettlement in particular? Does the UNHCR have a view on third-country arrangements, such as the Turkish arrangement? What is the view on the move for a further 15 arrangements to be put in place? We are talking about an outrageous situation whereby 80,000 refugees are proposed to be resettled to Afghanistan. I imagine the UN has a view on this – I hope it does and I am keen to hear it.

Do the UNHCR representatives have a view or comment on the persecution of minorities? The case of anyone who is persecuted as well as any death is abhorrent. However, the systematic persecution and the genocide perpetrated on Christians, Yazidis and others in the Middle East are unacceptable too. When we discuss the horrors the Syrian regime has inflicted on the people there, we also must consider what the so-called Islamic State, al-Nusra Front and other groups that are supposed to be moderate are carrying out against ethnic minorities in the region.

I agree completely with the witnesses that political solutions are required. I welcome the comments to the effect that all those involved have to be part of an overall solution. I thank the deputation for the presentation this morning.

Tony McLoughlin (Sligo-Leitrim, Fine Gael)
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I thank Ms O'Hara for her presentation. Ms O’Hara referred to funding. What is the breakdown of the $67 million in humanitarian assistance to those affected by the conflict in Syria? In what beneficial way is it being used? How many members of the Irish rapid response corps have been deployed to the Balkans or the Middle East to help UN agencies responding to migration challenges resulting from the Syrian conflict? How much Irish Aid funding has been given to NGOs, UN organisations and the Red Cross in partnership with local organisations to offer assistance to those affected by the Syrian conflict?

Ms Gráinne O'Hara:

Let me start with the questions posed by Deputy O'Brien. I will address the question on resettlement first. It is fundamentally important to bear one point in mind with resettlement. We are discussing a global refugee and displaced population which tops 60 million. Let us consider my region of the world specifically and repeat the figures for Syria - they are phenomenal. There are 4.8 million registered refugees. The number of refugees that will have access to resettlement will always be only a small proportion of the refugee population. For the Syria response in particular, the UNHCR hosted a high-level meeting on resettlement and other forms of humanitarian admissions in Geneva on 30 March last year.

The goal our High Commissioner was aiming for was 10% of the total figure of Syrian refugees, let us say, somewhere in the region of 400,000 to 500,000 from within the Syrian refugee population. A number of pledges were made at that meeting, including some new resettlement and admission pledges from countries that have not had a tradition of resettlement. The United Arab Emirates pledged 15,000 places over the course of five years, being a new potential resettlement partner.

As UNHCR, we are always looking to any resettlement country to increase the numbers. Indeed, the numbers for Ireland and for other members of the European Union are rather modest but not insignificant.

As for what we use resettlement for, it serves a number of purposes. In part, it is simply an expression of solidarity. It is sending the message to countries in the neighbouring region - the ones hosting the vast majority of refugees - that they are not alone and we are also willing to step up and admit refugees to our own territory. Through a selection process which allows to look at specific protection needs, even small numbers of resettlement places are significant.

Last year, recalling again that our High Commissioner had set the bar at this target of 400,000 out of the Syria crisis, out of the entire region of Middle East-north Africa we submitted 96,000 submissions for resettlement. Submissions differ from departures and arrivals because we are submitting in one calendar year and, of course, there is a time lag due to security clearance and other requirements. The 96,000 is the number we submitted from the region last year. The largest of the resettlement countries, the ones with the largest quotas, would be traditional resettlement partners, such as Canada, the US and Australia. That said, the quotas offered by countries, such as Ireland and the European Union, are significant. They are important to us. We are always lobbying for higher numbers but whatever is on offer we will use to the maximum for refugees.

In response to the question about different arrangements, specifically the Turkish-EU arrangement, that is something about which UNHCR expressed concern at the time. We continue to have concerns about bilateral and multilateral arrangements that affect the ability of refugees to gain access to safety. At the same time, a fundamental feature of what was happening out of Turkey at the time the deal was struck was these large movements of refugees by dangerous sea routes, something we see much less of now in the eastern Mediterranean but something we continue to see at quite significant levels in the central Mediterranean, particularly with Libya as a departure point. We have a fundamental concern about the safety of life at sea. We would encourage that any of these bilateral arrangements take account of that and take account of adequate measures that ensure refugees are not being unreasonably blocked or pushed back to situations of danger. That said, we understand the migration management motivations behind these specific arrangements that are being negotiated between states and we stand ready to discuss with states and offer our technical advice in order that whatever deals are struck are in the best interests of refugee protection. For us, the fundamental red line is the 1951 convention bar on non-refoulement, the forced removal to a situation of danger. That is something we would always be looking out for in these types of agreements.

On the question with respect to the situation of minorities, the minority populations in the region have suffered greatly. What has happened to the Yazidis with the flight of almost their entire population from the area around Sinjar in northern Iraq was something that garnered a lot of media attention. Many of these Yazidis continue to live in camps as internally displaced persons within Iraq and many of them are also displaced to countries in the region. For the refugee side of the minority response, the appeal that I referred to would include the needs of minority populations. It is important to underline that many of the minorities, be they Yazidis or Christians, remain, some of them still in their homes but some of them as internally displaced, both within Iraq and Syria, and those internal displacement situations are also in acute need of funding to be able to respond to specific needs of minorities who have suffered considerably.

In response to Deputy McLoughlin's question about how the finances break down, what we were launching in Finland is a response plan known as the regional refugee and resilience plan, 3RP. I have mentioned on several occasions the price tag of €4.63 billion that attaches to this plan. This is not the UNHCR's response alone. This covers the needs of all the participating UN organisations and as many as 240 other partners. That covers many of the non-governmental organisations, both international and local. It also refers to the needs of the hosting governments, especially in the areas, for example, of education and health services. It goes without saying that if there is such a large influx of refugees, for example, more than 1 million registered refugees in Lebanon, that will have an impact on health and education services. Most of the receiving states have pledged a full commitment to ensuring Syrian refugee children have access to education, but that costs money. A massive influx to a country's education system means funding is needed to increase classroom sizes, classroom numbers and the number of teachers on the payroll. Therefore, the appeal is broken down across sectors and it addresses education and health. I will not go into the details of it because it would probably be too tedious to go through each, but I can leave the committee a copy of the appeal which includes a detailed breakdown.

I cannot answer the Deputy's question as to how many Irish members of the rapid response corps have been deployed. I can only speak to those representatives of Irish NGOs that I see in the region. GOAL and Concern are fundamental partners in many aspects of the refugee response. Irish Aid is, in fact, quite a significant donor to the UNHCR, including in the office where I work in Amman, Jordan. I work out of our regional office in Amman and we have a staff member there who is supported by Irish Aid funding. Ireland is a significant partner to us and we are grateful for the support we have received.

Noel Grealish (Galway West, Independent)
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I am delighted Ms O'Hara got the opportunity to visit the committee and I compliment the UNHCR on its tremendous work. I have a few points to make and a few questions.

Ms O'Hara mentioned the 1 million refugees in northern Lebanon. I visited the refugee camps in northern Lebanon two years ago. Has Ms O'Hara been there recently and what is the situation? Many of these people do not want to become so-called refugees. They just want to go back home. At a conference in Beirut which was attended by many of the religious leaders from all over the Middle East, I said that I was not speaking about what dictators such as Saddam Hussein and Gaddafi did, but that there was religious freedom under them. When these dictators were taken out, there was no solution. These people we are speaking about do not want to become refugees.

The western world cannot keep taking refugees from the Middle East. I remember meeting one family and all the woman said was that she wanted to go home to her town in Syria. That woman had to leave because she was Christian. This will continue unless there is a political solution based on the Middle East. The superpowers have to work together to find a solution. We cannot be using the Middle East as a pawn between Russia and the United States. Western-type culture cannot be imposed on the Middle East.

The Middle East is thousands of years old and the United States of America is only a couple of hundred years old. I was in Egypt with my colleague, Deputy Darragh O'Brien, and that came up. The solution for the Middle East must be found within the Middle East. Iran, Iraq and all of these countries have to work, perhaps with financial support from the Western world, if we are to get a political solution within the Middle East.

What is the situation like in the camps in Lebanon? We are taking a number of families from Syria in my own county of Galway. I have been invited to meet them when they arrive and I look forward to that. Last night, President Trump said he was going to ban people from various countries, including Syria. There will also be Brexit in England, which is also going to have a knock-on effect. This is worrying. These countries are going to close their borders to refugees and to providing them with new lives and opportunities. It is going to put more pressure on other countries. Perhaps Ms O'Hara could comment on that.

Seán Crowe (Dublin South West, Sinn Fein)
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The witnesses are welcome. The figures presented here today are staggering. There are 5 million Syrian refugees abroad, 6.6 million are internally displaced and 13.5 million are in need of humanitarian assistance. War and conflict create refugees as do climate change and famine. The only solution long term is a political one. There is a great deal of positive news in regard to some of the discussions in Kazakhstan. Does Ms O'Hara believe those discussions are going anywhere?

The Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade figures set out that 974,000 people are living in besieged areas in Syria. How does the UNCHR access these people and provide them with food? How do UNHCR staff get in and out?

On Turkey, I listened to the interview earlier on "Morning Ireland". Another staggering number mentioned was the 2.8 million refugees. Does the UNHCR have a view on the EU-Turkey deal, specifically that the EU considers Turkey to be a country of safe origin? I raised this yesterday post the European Council meetings. I do not know how anyone under any criteria could consider Turkey a safe country of origin given how it violates the civil and human rights of its own citizens and others. Turkey is part of the conflict in that region. It has armed, funded and trained some of the jihadists operating in Aleppo and elsewhere. However, it is also part of the solution in the area. I read reports of a leaked letter from the UNHCR which shows that the Turkish Government is refusing and delaying access to asylum seekers in refugee camps after have been deported from Greece to Turkey. Does the UNHCR have any information on that? The UNHCR agreed in this agreement that it would be a key actor in the resettlement process. I am concerned that the UNHCR is a key actor but is not getting access to the camps. What is happening there?

In regard to vulnerable families and children in refugee camps, I have heard disturbing reports of young girls being sold off into marriage by desperate families who are refugees in Lebanon, Jordan and Turkey. What is the approach of the UNHCR to tackling this problem? Does it have any programmes in the area?

One does no longer hears a great deal about Mosul. Ms O'Hara said 162,000 people had been displaced due to the fighting there. It has slipped off the radar despite the ongoing military operation. What are conditions like for people? How many are estimated to be still in Mosul?

During the evacuation of eastern Aleppo, there were widespread reports of people going missing, particularly young men following encounters with the police or state security services. Again, there were concerns following the evacuation. I am sure the UNHCR is aware of this. Is it providing support to the families of those who are missing?

There was mention of President Donald Trump. He is talking about banning resettlement for a certain period. What impact will that have directly? He is talking about greater security clearance and so on.

The pledge on funding for Syria has been mentioned by many speakers. What happens there? I do not understand why countries make pledges but do not follow through on them. Is there any attempt? Is this a regular occurrence? What excuses do they make? How do they justify pulling away after providing the pledge internationally?

Ms Gráinne O'Hara:

I will respond first to Deputy Grealish. I am very glad to hear he had the opportunity to visit Lebanon which is one of the main host countries of both Syrian and Iraqi refugees in the region. I have been speaking more or less exclusively about Syrians, but it should not be forgotten that there are also Iraqi, Somali and Sudanese refugees. The countries in the region are hosting refugees from beyond Syria. In his conversations with the people he met Deputy Grealish presumably referred to the fundamental question in the hearts of all refugees, which is the possibility of being able to return home. I have heard that myself time and again in interactions with refugees. Lebanon is one of the locations that we cover from our office in Jordan. I was last in Lebanon just before Christmas and will be there again in the middle of February. We hear the same things Deputy Grealish heard. People would like to go home. However, they are not necessarily willing to go home until they feel things are sufficiently secure. That is why it is so important to keep a focus on the possibility of a political solution.

Lebanon is significant in that it is also one of the larger host countries for some of the religious minorities, in particular Christians. Lebanon has quite a high proportion of Christians who have fled Syria. It is a matter of concern to these communities and their leaders that they do not want to be banished permanently from the Middle East.

Noel Grealish (Galway West, Independent)
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Hear, hear.

Ms Gráinne O'Hara:

There is an interest on the part of these religious communities in ensuring that their rights and concerns are taken into account and that they have the possibility to return home. Returning home in the wake of some of the levels of violence the minority communities have faced is no easy matter. There is a long road to travel in terms of rebuilding confidence if indeed that can be achieved at all for the minority communities. This is something that must remain front and centre of all discussions about political solutions and the prospects for return. Return is something that remains very much to the forefront of the minds of the vast majority of refugees. It is something on which the UNHCR works very closely with host communities. It is definitely a solution that holds out greater prospects than resettlement could possibly achieve. We are not there yet, however. The political solution is not in place and conflict continues in parts of Syria and Iraq which makes it not an immediate prospect that people will be able to return home.

Deputy Crowe gave me a great deal of homework with his list of questions. I will try to go through them one by one. Each and every one of the points he raised was important to address. The figures are staggering. This is one of the biggest displacements we have seen in recent times. The annual statistics issued by UNHCR in 2016 show higher levels of displacement globally than we have seen since the end of the Second World War.

We are facing a crisis of displacement and the Middle East and North Africa are very much at the crossroads of this displacement, particularly around Syria and Iraq. Staggering as the numbers are they should not overwhelm us because there are responses and possibilities. This is why we continue to put these kinds of appeals in the public domain and why we are seeking funding to continue essential programmes which address many of the issues about which the Deputy expresses concern.

I will refer to one issue, in particular that the Deputy mentioned, the question of underage marriage and gender based violence more broadly. We are very much engaged with local communities, and are working on community-based approaches to address those sort of problems. What do I mean by community-based approaches? I mean precisely the sort of things that were raised in some of the Deputy's colleagues' questions and comments, to the effect that one has to understand culture and community in order to reach solutions. When we talk about community-based approaches, we are talking about going into the camps and neighbourhoods where refugees live, speaking to children and their parents and trying to get a good understanding of what drives people into permitting their children to enter underage marriages. Some of the push factors are definitely financial because people have slipped into such levels of poverty. Underage marriage, or youth marriage, is sometimes seen as a survival tactic, but it is one which we would perceive as negative because of its impact on the lives and well-being of young girls, in particular. There are a lot of programmes ongoing in that respect.

The Deputy also stated that there are some signs of hope coming out of Kazakhstan. The two-day discussions, which recently concluded in Astana, primarily involved the military actors, those actually doing the fighting. One of the fundamental outcomes from Astana has been the hope that the ceasefire that was declared in Syria would hold. Now we see Turkey, Iran and Russia offering themselves as guarantors of that ceasefire. The cessation of hostilities is, of course, a significant step forward for civilian populations. The easing of the daily pressure of bombardment is a huge step forward for populations in places like Aleppo, and of course it is to be welcomed, but it needs to be followed up with a firm political solution addressing all other aspects of the conflict ceasefires have come and gone in Syria. Hopefully, this one will hold.

With respect to the Deputy's question about Turkey, the UNHCR expressed concerns about the EU-Turkey deal. For those that are removed from Greece and returned to Turkey we have access to the places where those individuals are held. We have the possibility to visit and to provide advice and assistance to the Turkish authorities with respect to those cases that are returned. As I said in response to one of the Deputy's colleagues, one of the fundamental things we lobby the Turkish authorities for is to ensure that persons returned to Turkey, who are in need of international protection, would not be returned onwards to situations of danger, be that back to Syria, Afghanistan or from wherever they may have come. That is something we are working very closely with the Turkish authorities on.

I should make a distinction between the locations to which persons removed from Greece go back to in Turkey and the general camp population for the Syrian refugees, to which we have access. In making that point I would like very much to underline that one of the significant features of the Syria response across the region is the fact that the vast majority of Syrian refugees are not, in fact, living in camps. One of the fundamental characteristics of this population is that this is a very urbanised population. The vast majority of refugees are living in host communities in urban locations. The situation is very different when we look at internal displacement.

The Deputy asked in particular about the conditions for people leaving Mosul. Of the 162,000 people who have been displaced, the majority of them are living in temporary camp locations which have had to be set up very quickly to respond to their immediate needs. Not everyone is in camps, some people have friends and relatives that have been able to host them, but the camp conditions facing those leaving Mosul are very basic. This is partly by design because of the hope that the displacement will be short-lived and that people will be able to return to Mosul, but that has yet to be fully realised. The camp conditions are quite basic. They are not the most comfortable of locations to be living in.

The Deputy asked a specific question about the Aleppo situation and the reports of people having gone missing. In the week leading up to Christmas, roughly between 19 and 22 December, when this evacuation operation took place from Aleppo, between ourselves, UN entities, and the Red Cross, which has had a fundamental role in assisting in the departure of medical cases, we estimate that as many as 35,000 people had direct assistance to be evacuated from Aleppo. We also estimate that an additional 111,000 people were displaced in Aleppo but have remained there, roughly divided in half between the eastern and western parts of the city.

The UN was called on under the conditions of a Security Council resolution to undertake observation and monitoring of the evacuation from Aleppo. The degree to which we were able to do that effectively was extremely limited. The buses moved quite fast. People were loaded on those buses and, while we were there physically in an observer role, it was very difficult to have direct access to people and to be able to speak to them. We have had much more access to people at the points of arrival in locations within Idlib province. There, as the Deputy stated in his question, we have spoken to people who have lost family members. They have been separated from them. They may be in detention. There is a lot of work ongoing trying to trace family members. That was a characteristic of the Aleppo evacuation and indeed of other evacuations prior to that. I had personal experience myself of the evacuation from Homs in the summer of 2014 and we saw similar dynamics there.

On what I believe was the Deputy's last question, and he will tell me if I skipped any, on the question of pledging, we also often wonder why one would pledge and then not commit. It obviously creates problems for the sustainability and predictability of funding. What I want to make very clear is that when I talk about the major appeals only reaching a 60% level of funding, that does not necessarily equate to pledges having been made and not fully met. That starts from the fundamental basis of the pledges not necessarily matching up to the needs because we are constantly working on the basis of needs-based planning. By needs we are talking about people's fundamental needs, along the lines of the breakdown of the appeal that I gave the Deputy's colleague, such as health services, education and all those basic needs. We find that all too frequently the pledges simply do not match the needs. There are a range of reasons some individual states may fail to meet their pledges. It can be budgetary changes within a state or it can be changes in administration. Within a given funding year, there can be changes made to the pledges that individual states have made.

Maureen O'Sullivan (Dublin Central, Independent)
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I apologise for having missed the beginning of the presentation. I will not go back over questions that have already been asked. We know the political situation and the political answer in regard to Syria from what Ms O'Hara has said. My question is on where that will lead into rebuilding and people going home. What is her sense of how near or how far away that is? With the fall of Aleppo I think people were wondering if that might be it in terms of the military end of it or if we are going to see another Aleppo in places like Douma or Idlib? Does the UNHCR have any engagement with the white helmets? We hear conflicting reports about their work.

Others have mentioned the Yazidis and the minorities. Where can the UNHCR help people like the Yazidis who are scattered in a number of countries, who are an ethnic group and who want to go back to their homeland and to have their right of return?

Are protection zones respected when there is an attempt to provide a protection zone for vulnerable people?

The UN is a massive organisation. There are many NGOs, other organisations and faith-based groups in the countries where the UN is working. What is the level of co-ordination? Even though all of the groups are present, some people can fall through the cracks. Before Christmas some of us met a group that is working with Iraqi Christian refugees who are based in Jordan and relying on fund-raising efforts in this and other countries to support their health, education and housing needs.

Regarding Yemen and the effect of the use of drones and cluster bombs, what work is the UN doing in that country?

Finally, other members have asked about Turkey. My concern about Turkey is that there are Kurdish groups who are very proactive in supporting democracy and people's democratic rights, yet we are aware of the conflict between the Turks and the Kurds. Where can there be a resolution to that in the future? My fear is that, again, the Kurdish people will be the victims in all of this.

The witness mentioned community based work. We had a meeting with representatives of the Global Fund recently and they pointed out that community-based interventions in terms of health are much more effective, so it was good to hear that point.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Fine Gael)
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Is there a reason the UNHCR was not invited to the peace talks? Is it a policy decision that the UNHCR does not involve itself or is it the fact that it was not invited? As an organisation that has been deeply involved in the situation it must know a great deal more detail than most of us on this side of the world. It is extraordinary that it would not be involved in any attempts to bring about a political solution.

Pouring money into this problem will not solve it. I had the experience in the 1990s, when I was Minister for Defence, of regularly visiting Lebanon and Syria. As the witnesses will be aware, at that time Lebanon was under attack more than Syria. It is extraordinary that this reversal has now happened. Where does the UNHCR fit into the equation? Pardon my ignorance if I should know this. However, it strikes me that there is a huge weakness in how to bring about a solution after six years of war. Pouring money into the situation will not solve the problem. It is time that key people such as the witnesses and others, who understand the difficulties, are brought into an attempt to bring about a peaceful solution. It is very difficult for people here to understand the difference between our culture and the culture in that part of the world. As I found out, one must be there to understand it. We are getting ourselves into a situation where we are blaming one country, such as Iran or others. The reality is that if people have religious beliefs and come under attack and if people of their religious beliefs are being attacked in another country, it is automatic that they would have sympathy and move towards trying to solve it. That would happen equally in this country, if we saw Christians or Catholics being attacked. Of course we would help.

At this stage the talking is over. It is time to get the key people around a table and not just keep pouring money into the situation. We are talking about vast sums of money that could be used far better in rebuilding the infrastructure and getting people back into their homes. Can the witnesses give some guidance on what is the best thing we can do to promote a situation that would assist the UNHCR and others to get around the table and try to find a solution to this problem? Blaming one country or another is irrelevant at this stage, as far as I am concerned. There are reasons that others are involved, but at this stage there is not much point in arguing about it. They are involved. Perhaps the witnesses would educate me on where their role starts and finishes, or am I asking too much of the UNHCR in saying that it should be around the table when the negotiations are taking place?

Ms Gráinne O'Hara:

The Deputy certainly is not asking too much. I am here to answer the members' questions and I will do my best to do so.

I will respond first to Deputy Maureen O'Sullivan. She asked how close we are to returns. It is a difficult question to answer. There are very high aspirations for returns. It is important to understand that returns have been ongoing simultaneously with the waves of displacement I have described. By and large, it is from within the populations of internally displaced. In that situation people who were displaced stayed close to home and if the situation improves they would attempt to return. We see circular patterns of displacement and returns throughout the region. However, if the Deputy's question is about how close we are to seeing the large scale return of refugees, we are some way from that although, as I said in response to earlier questions, that is the aspiration of the vast majority of the refugees.

On the specific question about the White Helmets, it is not an organisation the UNHCR is working with directly in the sense of providing direct funding to it. However, we are very familiar with its work in Aleppo and other locations and we have seen at first hand the value of its work in attempting to save lives.

The Deputy asked about protection zones. The UNHCR has spoken publicly on this on a number of occasions. The mere declaration of a zone as a safe or protected zone by one or other party to a conflict does not make that zone materialise in a way that it could be considered viable and safe. I work for an organisation whose primary responsibility is to defend the right to asylum. The fundamental underlying component of the right to asylum is the right to be able to flee, including across international borders, if the protection of one's life and one's family's security requires that. We take a very cautious approach to the various declarations about safe zones. In previous conflicts we have had the experience of safe zones that turned out to be not very safe. I think in particular of experiences lived and lessons learned very harshly in the Balkans, so we approach the safe zone questions with much caution. However, we simultaneously welcome localised ceasefires and the pacification of areas that would allow people to remain or to return. The option of safe zones is worth exploring but the zones would have to live up to quite high international standards to be genuinely called safe zones.

On the Deputy's question about Yemen, it is a country within our area of coverage. I have been to Yemen only once but we have a considerable team working there. The crisis in Yemen is characterised more by internal displacement than by refugees. We do not see huge numbers of Yemeni refugees in the region, but the levels of internal displacement are quite massive and on a par with those in Syria and Iraq. Unfortunately, the Yemen humanitarian appeal, which I was reviewing in draft yesterday and which will soon be released, is one of the most underfunded in the region.

What we see in Yemen, in comparison with Iraq and Syria, is a humanitarian crisis that in some ways goes beyond what we see in the other two countries. I am not referring to the numbers involved but issues such as levels of malnutrition which are extremely acute in Yemen and a characteristic of the crisis that is very distressing.

The Deputy asked me a specific question about Kurdish populations. I should make clear that the UNHCR has no direct involvement with programmes in Turkey which are responding to the internal displacement of Turkish Kurds. However, we are very much involved with Kurdish populations across all of northern Syria and the Kurdish regional area of Iraq or KRI. The KRI is a location that hosts refugees - 250,000 Syrian refugees still live in the region - and is simultaneously responding to very large-scale displacement. Many of the people who have been displaced from places such as Mosul are moving either to the Kurdish region or areas on its boundaries. The authorities in the region are playing a significant role in the response to internal displacement and continuing to host refugees from Syria.

Deputy Séan Barrett's question was definitely not easy, but it merits an answer. It is not so much a question of the UNHCR not being invited to the talks but one of different roles for different parts of the United Nations within the talks. An invitation to the talks in Astana was extended to the United Nations and the UN delegation was headed by the Secretary General's special envoy, Mr. de Mistura. In reference to the political process which Mr. de Mistura leads, for which talks are anticipated to resume in Geneva in early February, the last rounds of formal talks in Geneva broke down without much success last April. While the UNHCR does not sit at the table as a party to the discussions, we are present at them.

I referred to our role and responsibility to ensure the voice of refugees was heard. Part of the Geneva talks addresses the involvement of civil society and includes refugee representatives. That is where we participate and we do so alongside the refugees. However, the UNHCR also participates based on our experience of displacement, which is not only in Syria and Iraq. Our experience stretches back to the foundation of the UNHCR in the early 1950s. We are at the talks and have a voice, but our voice is primarily humanitarian.

I hear the Deputy loud and clear and certainly do not disagree with his comments to the effect that continuing to pour money into a humanitarian response does not in and of itself bring a solution. I could not agree more that the money could arguably be far better used on reconstruction activities which will be needed when any solution starts to kick in. At the same time, when we see a final solution - a political solution - being reached, there will be a shift towards returns and reconstruction. There will still be humanitarian needs, however, and the appeal we were addressing in Helsinki, namely, the phenomenal price tag of $4.63 billion to which I have referred several times, was to pay for essential services that need to be maintained until such time as there is a full solution because these are basic services.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Fine Gael)
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Does Ms O'Hara agree that the voice of the UNHCR, an organisation that is active at the coalface, is essential in assisting whomever is representing the United Nations in negotiations to try to bring about a peaceful solution to a very difficult problem? If the UNHCR is dealing daily with people at the coalface, surely it is advisable to have representatives of the organisation, not necessarily Ms O'Hara, at the negotiating table, even it means sitting behind the main UN representative.

It strikes me that it is very difficult for people to understand events in Syria. Religion is involved and there have been all sorts of other issue over the years. While it will not be easy to find, a solution is very badly needed. A small country such as Ireland can try to force a circumstance in which people are kept at the table and those at the table are those who have knowledge and experience of the difficulties on the ground. An organisation such as the UNHCR needs to be at the negotiations, whether seated at the table or behind those at it. It should at least be hanging around when the negotiations are taking place.

Seán Crowe (Dublin South West, Sinn Fein)
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On the resettlement programme, Ireland has experienced major changes in the past 15 years as a result of people from different parts of the world moving here. This has caused a major cultural change. The death of Alan Kurdi caused a major outpouring among Irish people who wanted to provide help and support. A number of groups consisting of organisations which deal with migrants, politicians and others came together to try to learn from mistakes made in the past and respond to the goodwill that had been shown. Unfortunately, difficulties have arisen in that regard. People will automatically conclude that I am referring to recent developments in Ballaghdereen, but accurate information dissipates fear. We need to ensure people know about the resources available and so on. How important are these factors in the resettlement programme and ensuring those being resettled are welcomed rather than met with antagonism, fear and uncertainty? Is this a key component of what we need to do in the future?

Ms O'Hara stated the Irish response had been modest. We would all like to increase it. We must learn from what has not worked in the past, for example, direct provision, and take new and different approaches. How important will this be, particularly for politicians?

Ms Gráinne O'Hara:

I can respond from the point of view of sending refugees. I fully agree that resettlement is not easy to achieve. It presents cultural challenges. It is very important that refugees be properly prepared for the resettlement process. For example, they need to know where they are going and what to expect. A degree of counselling should be undertaken at the departure point. In my current role I am more involved on that side of the equation. However, this leads on naturally to the issues the Deputy raised about the importance of having proper reception and integration mechanisms available at the point of arrival. We sometimes talk about resettlement in a casual way and only in terms of numbers, but there is more to resettlement that just numbers. Cultural adaptability and reception are significant factors in the success of resettlement programmes, not only for the benefit of the refugees and their family members who are the direct beneficiaries of being accepted on a resettlement programme into a country such as Ireland but also for the credibility of resettlement programmes in the eyes of the general population of hosting and receiving states. It is only with the support of the general public that programmes of resettlement can be maintained and have a positive impact.

I could not agree more with the comments Deputy Crowe made about the importance of considering and analysing critically what has and has not worked regarding reception to constantly strive to improve resettlement programmes.

Regarding the Irish programme, I used the word "modest" several times but I coupled it with the words "not insignificant". Considering the size of Ireland and of our population, 4,000 does not sound like a huge number in the context of the general numbers I have mentioned to the committee, but that 4,000 means an opportunity for 4,000 individuals - women, children, family members - to come to somewhere like Ireland for a fresh start. It is modest but definitely not insignificant.

Brendan Smith (Cavan-Monaghan, Fianna Fail)
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Reference was made earlier to the fact that there are 63 million refugees worldwide. These are people living in really desperate circumstances. This 63 million is equivalent to the population of Britain and just short of the population of France. Regarding the figures Ms O'Hara quoted in her presentation in respect of Syria alone, 13.5 million people inside Syria need humanitarian assistance, 6.3 million are internally displaced, there are 4.8 million Syrian refugees and 4.6 million people live in areas that are hard to access. This is for one country alone. It is really frightening to think of the desperate situation and the huge humanitarian programme of assistance that is needed. As other members have said, and as Ms O'Hara stated earlier in her concluding remarks, we need a political solution and we need dialogue. We sincerely hope the talks that resume next month will bring some progress. In her experience in this regard with her colleagues, working daily on this situation, does Ms O'Hara see any grounds for optimism regarding progress being made this year in the region?

Ms Gráinne O'Hara:

There must be grounds for hope. If not, it would be difficult for us to continue our work. Where I see the hope is in the expression of refugees themselves. Deputy Grealish referred to this arising from his visit to Lebanon. We must remain with some optimism based on the desires and the willingness of refugees and internally displaced persons themselves to find a solution. Obviously, they cannot do that alone. If they could, a solution would have been found long before now. However, in my everyday work, I see the hope still in the expressions of the refugees and the IDPs. It is our obligation as UNHCR, as a humanitarian organisation, to work with them to achieve those aspirations. I hope we will see progress in the course of the year because we are entering the seventh year of the Syria crisis and there must be a limit. It cannot continue unabated as it has done. We have seen some improvements with ceasefires. The benefit of the ceasefire is felt by the civilians inside Syria, but the ceasefire that dates from the start of the evacuation of Aleppo is continuing to hold, so we do see some signs of progress. Hopefully, they can be consolidated and built upon into something more permanent.

Brendan Smith (Cavan-Monaghan, Fianna Fail)
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I thank Ms O'Hara sincerely for her very detailed and comprehensive presentation and her responses to members' questions. I am very glad that Enda O'Neill, head of the UNHCR's office in Ireland, was able to join us for this presentation as well. I wish Ms O'Hara and all her colleagues in her organisation every success in the very important work it does on behalf of the most disadvantaged people throughout the world. We know there are unfortunately so many countries and regions needing the UNHCR's assistance. We sincerely hope the Governments of the world and the international community in general will be generous enough to act as donors for the amounts that are required to try to ease the plight of the most disadvantaged people in the world today. I repeat that we wish the UNHCR continued success in its work in very difficult circumstances.

Ms Gráinne O'Hara:

I thank the committee for having invited us.