Mr. Maurice Quinn:

With regard to the Permanent Defence Forces, let us look at the quality of the Defence Forces, their training and the very attractive outside employment. We have had a higher level of turnover than previously, which one can see from the trend in numbers. We are fully funded for Defence Forces of 9,500 personnel. We are putting a huge amount of work, with the Chief of Staff, at getting to 9,500 personnel. That is the one on the Defence Forces side.

I will give the Deputy some statistics on the turnover rates. We certainly have a higher level of retirements than anticipated. On the civilian employee side, one loses a lot of people on retirement and age grounds. At the same time we are looking at how we provide some of the services and capabilities that those civilian employees had in the past through outsourcing. What one is talking about are State industrial employees, such as plumbers and so forth, who keep our military installations right. There is a move towards a bit more outsourcing as well. That partially explains the underspend on civilian employees.