Kate O'Connell (Dublin Bay South, Fine Gael)
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Mr. O'Brien has stated it might be difficult to visualise. None of us has any difficulty in visualising it. Although I do not intend to speak for the committee, we all get the idea that there must be a grade 4 hospital and an academic centre. We cannot just draw straight lines between places. The point is that there is a hospital group, as well as a certain amount of CHOs. The borders are clear. If we divide the number of primary care clusters - 97 - by seven, it comes down to the definition of borders. As the Chairman indicated, it is about accountability and, as Deputy Louise O'Reilly stated, patients having pathways. We are not saying we cannot imagine the reason the borders wiggle; we are asking why they are not defined and clear, or why we cannot quantify exactly what is going on in the case of personnel, treatment services and what we own as a state in an area.