Mr. John Coyne:

I said earlier that the de minimisrule inhibited bigger developments. The Leader programme is also about smaller stuff and programmes. One example in Connemara was a feasibility study we had funded because two individuals who were very interested in the Marconi station. Through the Connemara Chamber of Commerce they applied to the Leader programme for funding and we gave them close to €30,000. As a result Fáilte Ireland took on responsibility for the development of the project which involved a sum close to €1 million. It was opened earlier this year by one of the Ministers and has attracted a lot of people to it. The Leader programme should be about small amounts of seed funding for projects that will grow into bigger amounts and which can involve co-operation with other State agencies.

Deputy Noel Grealish asked what the differences were under the new programme. If the two individuals about whom I spoke were to apply under the new Leader programme, they would approach the project officer who would determine whether they were eligible. Having filled in the expression of interest form and the comprehensive application form, it would be presented for a section 48 check to Pobal which would check to see if all of the answers were okay. At that point it would be sent back to the company which would send it to the evaluation committee which would recommend it and send it to the board for approval. The evaluation committee goes through the full file on any application, but the board cannot agree or disagree on it by itself.

A member of the evaluation committee has to score it, sign his or her name to it and have it witnessed. That goes into the file.

At that stage the combination of applications is put all into one and the chairman signs that before sending it off to the board via people like myself. The board has to repeat the process and the chairman of the board finally signs it and sends it off, and that goes into the file as well. It then goes to Pobal for a second section 48 check and the staff will examine whether the evaluation committee, the board and everybody else ticked all the boxes and signed all the documentation correctly and if they did not, it goes back. Assuming that they did, a letter of offer is issued. I do it on behalf of the forum. It goes out to the promoter at the stage and he or she gets on with the business. When it reaches draw-down stage, it goes back for another section 48 check before a payment issues. There are not staggered payments for amounts up to €10,000 but for larger amounts, there is a section 48 check for every staggered payment and that is before the departmental inspector comes in and conducts his 5% check. That is fine for somebody in receipt of hundreds of thousands of euro because they can afford professional fees. Animation, which was the success of the Leader programme in the past, is limited in the current programme. Unless the promoter has funds to employ a professional, he is a big disadvantage. If somebody is looking for €5,000 for seed stuff, he or she would have to be advised to have second thoughts because the process is ridiculous. I could be wrong but I predict the system will clog up within a year. There will be so many applications that there will be backed up and that will slow the programme down. It will not run nearly as smoothly as it did the last time. The evaluation and board decision went through within a month before the business commenced. It will take months this time round.