Mr. Pat Bergin:

It is even in a crisis or very serious situations because there is a management structure for calling gardaí or making the Garda aware of an issue. If that is the case, there are individuals who will determine what they deem to be a crisis and who will engage constantly with the Garda. We have management on site all the time if an issue arises. The Garda is not going to come in and do our jobs for us. It is not responsible for the day-to-day operations of the campus. That is very clear. We have ongoing discussions and engagement with the Garda around this. If an offence has been committed, it is for the Garda to investigate and process, but it is not for it to come in very quickly. Historically, if issues arose where a young person would not go to bed and was causing a problem on the campus, local gardaí were contacted and came down. They stood behind the staff and the young fellow went to bed. That cannot be the practice on the campus.

It cannot happen.

We are very clear that it is a requirement for the Garda to come onto the campus to provide assistance. In the event of something happening similar to what happened on 29 August, that call will be made, but it is made at a very senior level based on the level of risk that exists. In terms of the day-to-day operations, the staff, namely, the managers of the units need to manage the crisis. They need to draw on all the resources across the campus to support that, but the Garda is not one of those supports.

Regarding risks, a risk assessment is undertaken and that is determined on the basis of people considering what factors are in place. If somebody is not considering all the factors, of course a risk assessment will be overridden. If somebody has not considered all the factors that need to be considered, a unit manager or whoever will input into that and identify that the person had not considered particular elements. To give an example regarding risks, if it is required for a person to go to court and if three staff have been deemed necessary to bring that person to court, a member of management may look at that requirement and, having noted that the young person has gone home, might ask what the issue is and why three staff are required to bring that young person to court and might say that two should be sufficient. However, the risk assessments that was undertaken by the staff might determine that three are required. Risk assessments are only a tool to determine what actions need to be taken and if all factors have not been considered, managers will input into that process.

Regarding restorative justice, we have requested this and have been processing the campus as having a restorative practice. We have done some training with staff and have been doing some work with young people to have restorative practice as part and parcel of the culture on the campus. With respect to assessment from a mental health perspective, we have psychiatry on site. The HSE provides us with a psychiatrist, Professor Harry Kennedy, every Wednesday and he is available as required. All children coming onto the campus undertake a MAYSI assessment, which is a mental health assessment, and that is done on a weekly basis through a multidisciplinary approach.

On the question on the structure, each unit has 15 staff and one manager. We have agreement with the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform on our team leader process within that. We are in discussions with the union about introducing that. There was a co-ordinator post in the unit and it was voluntary, but that was withdrawn by the unions. However, we have approval now to put in place a structure to support the managers and the staff from within their 15 staff and one manager. Each unit operates on its own and they provide cross-cover depending on what is happening on a day-to-day basis.

Regarding assurances with respect to the challenges-----