Oireachtas Joint and Select Committees

Tuesday, 4 October 2016

Joint Oireachtas Committee on European Union Affairs

General Affairs Council: Minister of State at Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade

5:00 pm

Photo of Dara MurphyDara Murphy (Cork North Central, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I thank the members. I have a very significant amount of notes taken. I hope to get to many, if not all, of the issues. The consensus in the country is reflected in the consensus in the questioning. I agree with the vast majority of the observations. I will try to work through them as I got them, starting with Senator Leyden's point.

I concur with him very strongly that it is very regrettable that we have arrived at this position. It is a decision of the United Kingdom affecting Ireland but it also affects the other 26 member states. It has the potential to affect every part of our government and institutions, some much more than others. The Taoiseach will chair the strategic committee on Brexit issues and we are putting significant additional resources into the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade, so the Minister, Deputy Flanagan, will have additional people. It will be the number one issue for him to deal with in the Department and I will deal with it as Minister of State with responsibility for Europe. It will also be the number one issue for the Taoiseach.

To come to Deputy O'Rourke's point, other Departments, such as the Departments of Finance and Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation, will consider how we look at market diversification. This is too big for any one Minister and it will command the attention of everybody from the Taoiseach, all members of the Cabinet, this committee and party groups, including Independents.

Given our presence in the European Parliament, with Fianna Fáil a member of the ALDE group, Sinn Féin having four MEPs, the Labour Party a member of the Socialist group and Fine Gael in the European People's Party, we can collectively exert significant influence.

Deputy Seán Haughey asked how do we deliver our message to our friends and how well our unique circumstances are understood. We will all have to work on these issues. Trade and currency issues will affect all member states that export to the United Kingdom. Many continental countries that face onto the east coast of the UK are strongly affected by Brexit. I recently visited Denmark, for example, which, while not a member of the euro area, is a country with significant food exports, as are the Netherlands and the Nordic countries. The key point for us is to emphasise the unique journey this island has travelled and the support we have been given on that journey. We will work to support PEACE and INTERREG funding and the issue forms part of the current deliberations.

We must establish robustly, on the basis that we share a border with the UK on this island and the journey we have travelled, that Ireland has unique issues. All member states have trade and institutional issues to deal with and we all share concerns about the vision for Europe and its future direction. However, Ireland will be affected in a different way with respect to common travel, the journey the two communities in the North have made and the North-South and British-Irish bodies. We will continue to make this case robustly. There is a good appreciation that Ireland has specific challenges. Once the negotiations start in March, it will be up to us to explicitly ensure these issues are addressed as part of the final agreement.

To respond to Deputy Haughey's question on neutrality, the current discussions do not present a threat to Irish neutrality. Our position is specifically provided for in a protocol to the Lisbon treaty and this is very well understood, as members will be keen to learn.

Deputy Haughey also asked an interesting question on new partnerships. Ireland has stated that we share a common view with the United Kingdom in many areas, including innovation, trade and being open and dynamic economies. We strongly support the position that the European Union should continue to function as 27 member states. However, there are areas where we will seek stronger co-operation such as, for example, digital innovation. Smaller and peripheral member states require that greater attention is paid to digital single markets because we can benefit more from them than other countries.

Reference was made to protectionism. Some will argue that the position taken on the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership, TTIP, and the EU-Canada Comprehensive Economic and Trade Agreement, CETA, is protectionist but it is important that Europe remains innovative. To respond to Deputy Frank O'Rourke's point, Ireland must also seek new markets and partnerships. There is an urgency among countries across the European Union, especially in Scandinavia and north-east Europe, about increasing trading partnerships.

I touched on Deputy Breathnach's question on PEACE and INTERREG moneys. We are determined to ensure this funding continues because it has provided significant support to local communities. It is vital to ensure it remains predictable and stable and there are no question marks hanging over it. We are discussing this issue with the United Kingdom and the European Commission.

Senator Neale Richmond asked a question on the aims of the other 26 member states. Ireland is affected in every way by virtue of our involvement and engagement with Britain in many different areas. For this reason, we are significantly ahead of most other member states in terms of the preparations undertaken in advance of Brexit. Other member states are involved in a process similar to that under way in the UK in examining issues that will arise.

Deputy Seán Crowe and Senator Gerard P. Craughwell raised the issue of the future of the European Union. Politicians across the Union, whether Members of the European Parliament or members of this committee, should try not to speak about it in the third person. The rules issued by the European Commission are agreements that have been put in place at meetings of the Council and by governments and democratically elected politicians from the member states, including Members of the European Parliament who have reached agreements on certain issues. When voicing criticism of some elements of the European Union, politicians in the member states cannot absolve themselves of their role in the decision-making process. On a personal level, one of the most disappointing aspects of the debate in the United Kingdom was that much of the criticism levelled at the European Union was directed at laws and agreements to which UK Governments had agreed. We must have a more honest debate and accept that the European Union was created by its member states.

To respond to Deputy Bernard J. Durkan's point, it is crucial that we remember the bigger issues and the reason the European Union came into being. It is the outcome of a peace process started by member states and nations that were picking themselves up after the Second World War. When one reflects on thousands of years of European history, as Europeans, we should not take peace on our continent for granted. The European Union needs to focus on concrete measures such as ensuring social services work better and young people can secure employment. We must address the fundamentals of politics.

That brings me to the more contentious issue of the EU-Canada Comprehensive Economic and Trade Agreement, CETA, and the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership, TTIP. Deputy Seán Crowe made a point on the investor state element of the CETA and referred to a lack of debate. This element of the agreement will become a national competence and come before the Oireachtas and a committee of the House for discussion, which is welcome.

Ireland is an island off an island. One of the great successes of the European Union has been our ability to trade in a free market. I know that people have concerns about the CETA and the TTIP, but they are, in their most basic form, extensions of the Single Market to North America through free trade agreements. If we cannot agree common terms for trade and regulation between North America and Europe, we will be passed out by the rest of the world. Collectively, our proportion of global GDP is shrinking. It is important, especially for islands, that we reach an agreement. I agree with Deputy Seán Crowe, however, that a more robust debate is needed and that we must convince people of the merits of both the CETA and the TTIP.

Senator Paul Coghlan asked a very good question on the effect of Brexit on the EU budget. This issue has yet to be determined. We must decide whether to reduce the overall budget as a result of the United Kingdom leaving the European Union, given that some costs will reduce by virtue of Brexit, or whether member states will be asked to increase their contribution to the budget.

These are some of the issues for debate at the start of the next round of the multi-annual financial framework discussions. Of course this is an issue. We are very mindful in that context of the great value to our country of the Common Agricultural Policy. We, like other members states, are strong supporters of CAP.

I agree that migration remains a major challenge. Our commitment on numbers stands. It is not down to the Republic of Ireland that numbers are very low. We have sent Irish people out to try to identify why it is the case that the numbers travelling to Ireland have been small. A number of people will be coming soon.

In regard to the visit of Michel Barnier, he will meet the Taoiseach and other relevant Ministers next week but we do not have the exact date and time of his visit as of yet.

On the suggestion of having an Irish person on the Brexit negotiating team, our permanent representative, Declan Kelleher, the Secretary General of the Department of the Taoiseach, other Secretaries General, and everybody involved in the Department of the Taoiseach in particular, will keep us abreast of every comma and every sentence of these negotiations. They are the most important negotiations that the country will undertake since the very difficult talks we had with respect to the peace process in Northern Ireland. The fact that these decisions are being taken at European Council level is significant because the Taoiseach has been in office for more than five years and he knows many of the other prime ministers very well. We are moving into a new chapter of Irish politics. I know Deputies Sean Haughey, Micheál Martin, Joan Burton and others werein the European Parliament recently to meet their groups. This will be an opportunity to work together to influence prime ministers who are part of our groups. There was a very good suggestion from Senator Terry Leyden to bring politicians to Ireland to see the country.

Equally, there may be an opportunity for some members of this committee to travel with me to meet our Commissioner and MEPs because they belong to a good cross-section of party groups. We could dedicate some time in either Strasbourg or Brussels to reach out and meet other colleagues similar to our plan to bring members from all parts of Ireland to show where we have unity. There may be areas where we might disagree as a committee on the issue of our national concern in respect to Brexit, but we agree on the vast majority of matters we would like to see in the outcome. I would welcome the opportunity to work with the Chairman to see how we might do that. Perhaps we could get the political parties to look at engaging in the coming months with our MEPs as well. I think I have covered most of the questions.