John Curran (Dublin Mid West, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Deputy. I thank Ms. Fahey and Ms Feely for their presentations. I will not repeat all the points that were made, but I will refer to one or two general issues.

Ms Feely said that "research we are currently carrying out indicates tens of thousands of pensioners had their pensions drastically reduced following changes to the eligibility criteria for the contributory pension in 2012". Could she please tell me about the research, its scale, when it will be finalised and if she could make a copy of it available to us? It is a very factual and interesting piece. There is a lot of anecdotal evidence but detailed research would prove useful.

Both witnesses mentioned fuel poverty and so forth. In both presentations, reference was made to the fact that people face different challenges when trying to get value for money such in terms of an ability to switch online, e-billing and having enough regular money in one's bank account to pay by direct debit. It seems to me that the people who are most in need get the worst value for money. Increasing a weekly payment or the number of weeks is one method of improvement, but it is not the only one. As I have said before, we need to be more innovative as a State in getting value for money. It is the people who do not have access and, therefore, cannot carry out electronic switching or electronic billing or do not have enough money to pay by direct debt that get the worst value and the State is subsidising this situation. The State should use its buying power to get maximum discount for individuals who have no opportunity of getting a discount. The committee should look at this matter. I am not saying we should replace the increase and period. Instead, we should try to get far better value for the people who, when they are given the money, get less value than someone who has a bank account and, thus, can have a direct debit and carry out electronic switching. It is the people who need help the most that get let less value from the money we are giving them and that is one of the challenges facing us.

I thank both witnesses for their presentations. A number of significant issues have been raised and both witnesses might like to comment. Ms Feely opened proceedings at the beginning of this session so I will allow her to start and Ms Fahey might conclude.