Oireachtas Joint and Select Committees

Tuesday, 27 September 2016

Joint Oireachtas Committee on the Implementation of the Good Friday Agreement

Fiscal Implications for Northern Ireland of UK EU Referendum Result: Discussion

5:00 pm

Mr. Máirtín Ó Muilleoir:

I urge Senator Craughwell to have hope. I do not want him going home depressed. If we accepted everything that the holy trinity of Brexit Ministers in London wishes to accept, we would give up. Prime Minister May has had to chastise David Davis, whom I met, Liam Fox, the business Minister, and the wonderful Boris Johnson. If one picks up a newspaper each day, one will have a different idea of what the British intend to do about Brexit. We do not know. It is very difficult and I use the analogy that it is like grappling with cotton wool. It is difficult to have a really coherent plan. This is what we are doing. I agree with the Senator absolutely.

I return to Dr. McDonnell's point on agricultural payments. The British Chancellor said that he will guarantee the PEACE IV and INTERREG moneys if they are signed off by November 23. He further stated that, in the context of Structural Funds, the social fund and PEACE IV moneys, after that Northern Ireland will be on its own. That was bad enough because it put about €1.1 billion in peril. We cannot move the £500 million or €550 million we had hoped to get out the door before that statement was made. I am asking for the help of everyone here to try to get the money that has been agreed.

In terms of agriculture, the British Chancellor said he would underwrite the CAP payment of approximately €2.2 billion up until the exit, whenever that happens, or 2020. Farmers in the North get 9% of farm payments to the UK. We have no idea what will happen after 2020. The Minister for Finance, Deputy Charles Flanagan, has more faith in Mr. James Brokenshire than I have. I would be amazed if, after 2020 when we are forced out of the EU, the British Government gives us 9% of all farm payments. I suspect it will be more like 3%. There is a danger that farm payments will fall off a cliff in 2020.

What Dr. McDonnell said is absolutely right. It is amazing how often, when one visits groups in Belfast's inner city, one sees a plaque on the wall that says it is funded by the European Union, under the PEACE programmes or by means of the social fund. With regard to peace and reconciliation, the group WAVE, which works with victims and survivors, Relatives for Justice, which works with victims and survivors, and so many ex-prisoner groups rely on Europe for support. It will go to the very heart of the work in which Dr. McDonnell, Mark Durkan and our colleagues from mid-Ulster and west Tyrone are involved in trying to build our communities. It will be a grievous blow to efforts to build peace and foster reconciliation. We should not accept it. We have turned the ship of state of the British Government before. It would be unwise to accept, when it does not know what it is doing, that it has to be a particular type of exit. Those of us who voted to remain will defend the democratic right to remain and also the right of the people of Wales and England to leave. We will make common cause with our friends in Scotland on this. We want the Irish Government to say that the right of the people of the North trumps what they call the UK-wide vote. In that, the Taoiseach has an onerous responsibility. He has a tough job ahead of him. He has to go to the British and say that we need to have a bespoke arrangement. There should be a bespoke arrangement to ensure that we would still have protections and a right to enjoy the privileges of the Single Market, the freedom of movement of labour and membership of the European Union. Someone mentioned earlier how complex that would be. It is complex but it can be done. It is very simple - we voted to remain so we should be allowed to remain.