Chairman:

Today we meet with Mr. Jim Clarken, CEO of Oxfam Ireland, and Suzanne Keatinge, CEO of Dóchas, to discuss the issue of global migration, particularly in advance of the UN Summit for Refugees and Migrants to be held in September. I extend a warm welcome to them and their colleagues from the sector, including Marissa Ryan, head of advocacy and campaigns for Oxfam Ireland, Réiseal Ní Chéilleachair of Trócaire and Louise Finan of Christian Aid Ireland, who, I understand, may also assist with responses to members' questions that will arise during the discussions.

The meeting in September will be co-facilitated by Ireland's ambassador to the United Nations, David Donoghue, and his Jordanian counterpart. Today's meeting affords the members of this committee an opportunity to receive an update on measures being proposed and required to address the large movement of refugees and migrants. I am aware that the co-facilitators have been in constant contact with representatives of civil society, which has included a large number of bilateral meetings with NGOs. The figures recently released by the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees are stark as they indicate that 65.3 million people are forcibly displaced as a result of persecution, conflict, generalised violence or human rights violations.

The format of the meeting is that we will hear opening statements before moving on to a question-and-answer session with the members of the committee. Before we commence, I remind members, witnesses and those in the Visitors Gallery to ensure that their mobile telephones are switched off completely, not just on silent, for the entire duration of this meeting as they cause interference, even on silent mode, with the recording equipment in the committee room. I also remind members of the long-standing parliamentary practice to the effect that they should not comment on, criticise or make charges against a person or body outside the Houses or an official, either by name or in such a way as to make him, her or it identifiable. By virtue of section 17(2)(l) of the Defamation Act 2009, witnesses are protected by absolute privilege in respect of their evidence to the joint committee. If they are directed by the Chairman to cease giving evidence on a particular matter and continue to do so, they are entitled thereafter only to a qualified privilege in respect of their evidence. They are directed that only evidence connected with the subject matter of these proceedings is to be given and they are asked to respect the parliamentary practice that, where possible, they should not criticise or make charges against any person or entity by name or in such a way as to make him, her or it identifiable.

Mr. Jim Clarken:

I thank the Chairman and committee members for inviting Oxfam and Dóchas to come before the committee. I congratulate all members on their appointment to this important committee. We are grateful the committee has prioritised this issue at its first meeting. This is important and is much appreciated. I will give a global perspective on the situation throughout the world and some of the key issues on which I believe the committee should focus, and Ms Keatinge and colleagues will speak specifically on Ireland's role and the summit that will take place in September.

As the Chairman mentioned, more than 65 million people throughout the world today have been forcibly displaced, which is the highest number in recorded history. To give a sense of what this means, last year 24 people every minute were displaced somewhere in the world. If this is measured against the world's population, one person has been displaced for every 113 people in the world, so almost 1% of the entire global population is either an asylum seeker, internally displaced or a refugee, putting them at a risk which is unprecedented in history. Of the 65.3 million people forced to flee their homes, 40.8 million are internally displaced in their own countries and 21 million people are actual refugees. Three countries, Syria, Afghanistan and Somalia, produce half of this entire refugee population. The spotlight over the past year has been on Europe's challenge to manage approximately 1 million refugees and migrants arriving via the Mediterranean. The majority of refugees throughout the world are actually hosted in neighbouring countries, the majority of which are middle or lower income countries.

Committee members may be aware of a little known conflict in Burundi, which does not grab media attention. I recently returned from Tanzania, where more than 200,000 people have fled from neighbouring Burundi and are being hosted by the Tanzanian Government. When we look at such vast numbers it sometimes becomes difficult to put a human face on it. I met 28 year old Niyibize Aisha from Burundi who is in a camp in Tanzania. En route to there, her husband and four of her children were killed. She is there with her last remaining child, on her own with no family and very little support. Her child is ill and in need of medical attention which is not forthcoming. Her biggest fear is that any day she could be forcibly returned home. This is to give a sense of the uncertainty and fear so many refugees face every day, and the extreme situations which led them to flee. This is similar to the people we see in Europe and why they have fled. They have fled for the most drastic reasons. Nobody would get in a boat with an infant in the Mediterranean unless he or she was absolutely desperate. It is very important that we remember this, because sometimes in all of the information people get labelled as statistics or there is a suggestion as to why people might be travelling. This is why people are leaving. They are in desperate situations and their lives are threatened.

Oxfam works in nine of the ten countries where the vast majority of displacement happens. These are the three I mentioned, as well as South Sudan, Sudan, the Democratic Republic of the Congo, Congo, the Central African Republic, Myanmar and Colombia. We work there and in surrounding countries to provide essential services where needed, reduce inequality and poverty and support civil society. As mentioned, the countries hosting people are those such as Lebanon, where there are 1.2 million refugees in a country smaller than Ireland, Jordan, Tanzania and many others which are not spoken about. We also work in Italy and Greece to provide life-saving support, with clean water, food, clothes and hygiene, to those who have fled the worst of the crisis. We also supply psychological and legal support, in particular protection for women and girls.

We also have a programme in Serbia and another in Macedonia.

As well as humanitarian activities, which concern saving lives and protection, we have been active in lobbying governments and institutions, including the EU and the UN, to manage this crisis humanely. We are calling for governments to respect and uphold the rights of refugees and migrants and have been urging the UN Security Council and UN member states to act urgently to address the root causes of conflict and agree durable solutions for people displaced, not just by war and persecution but also by climate change and natural disasters. A number of factors are feeding into the global crisis.

The international system for the protection of refugees is one of the great accomplishments of the post-Second World War era. Throughout history, neighbouring countries have offered protection to refugees in the context of political interests or for co-religionist, co-ethnic and economic reasons. Since the mass murders of the 20th century, this has changed into a global solidarity around protection linked with human rights and grounded in notions of empathy and humanitarianism. The 1951 convention and optional protocol were founded on principles that are essential today, and we are worried about their erosion. The principles are: persons forced from their homes because of violence and conflicts should not be returned to a risk of serious harm and violation of human rights; persons recognised as refugees have rights under international law and those rights, if respected, will help refugees to build their lives and permit them to benefit states that have granted them protection; refugee status should not continue indefinitely; the international community has a collective responsibility to seek and provide durable solutions to displacement; international burden-sharing includes a commitment to assist countries of first asylum, which are those countries that I have mentioned; and refugee protection will not and cannot thrive in societies whose populations do not support it. Affirmation of these principles and support for the refugee cause require conscientious advocacy and political commitment and leadership.

Despite the fact that these protections have been in existence for more than 65 years, to our shame we are seeing ever-increasing situations in which the rights of refugees are eroded and jeopardised. Too many states are failing to uphold international law and are instead attempting to deter migration through closed borders, large-scale deportation, arbitrary detention and push-backs. Brutality by state agents, including police and border security guards, is rife and our partners are reporting an increased incidence of sexual abuse and exploitation of women, in particular, who are attempting to seek sanctuary in Europe. This is an indelible stain on our collective values.

The border closures and restrictions implemented by the EU have dramatically worsened the humanitarian crisis for refugees and migrants living in desperate conditions in Europe. Vulnerable people seeking safety and dignity remain at risk of death, torture and exploitation as they try to reach and cross the Mediterranean, where they face a legal limbo. In 2016 so far, nearly 3,000 people have perished in the Mediterranean. It is in danger of becoming a mass graveyard. We cannot accept this.

As channels for safe and legal migration are closed off, desperate people are forced into the hands of human traffickers and people smugglers from the Sahara all the way to the western Balkans. Oxfam's humanitarian programme in Italy recently highlighted the fact that many children are going missing while the Italian Mafia has been reported as saying that migrants are now more valuable than drugs. We are essentially allowing the criminal element to make significant amounts of money on the backs of desperate people. Politicians worldwide have responded to increased migration by stoking public fears of migrants of particular origins, playing on national and racial stereotypes and inflaming tensions for their own needs. For example, the Brexit campaign was marked by vitriolic and racist rhetoric in some quarters and a 40% increase in hate crimes has been recorded in the UK. The fact that the majority of people who are displaced are not in Europe at all has been ignored or forgotten.

Europe is failing to deal effectively with the migration crisis. The EU has turned what should have been a manageable surge in the number of people arriving at the borders into a humanitarian disaster. We need a saner and more humane system for managing migration, one that creates opportunities for people rather than for criminal networks of smugglers.

To juxtapose the European position with that of Tanzania, I met a woman called Ms Ruth Msafiri, the district commissioner of the Kibondo district in western Tanzania. Bear in mind that Tanzania is one of the poorest countries in the world. I asked her how it was managing with the refugees and how it was giving the same warm welcome.

She said: "A neighbour is a relative; we live in friendship; the boundaries are all in our imagination." As I said, they are supporting more than 200,000 people. We are calling on all states to reaffirm the rights enshrined in international refugee law, particularly the right to seek asylum, both through international processes such as the UN summit and through domestic platforms. These rights have been eroded recently by the EU-Turkey deal and subsequently the EU partnership framework agreement, which sees the EU using overseas aid as a bargaining tool with repressive regimes in an attempt to deter migration.

We are asking politicians, as leaders in their parties and communities, including at constituency level, to support our call for all countries, particularly rich countries, to offer a safe haven to some of the world's most vulnerable people. The six richest countries in the world are hosting only 9% of the entire world refugee population. We believe that rich countries need to welcome significantly higher numbers of refugees in the spirit of solidarity and responsibility sharing. This can be done in Ireland by increasing resettlement and relocation places and humanitarian visas, expanding opportunities for family reunification and initiating work and study visa programmes. The Irish refugee protection programme, which commits to welcome 4,000 refugees, is not sufficient. As only a couple of hundred people have been accepted so far, we have a long way to go.

We want politicians in Ireland and elsewhere to take a strong stand against xenophobia and racism by committing to institute a public debate on migration, founded on the basis of human rights, compassion and a rational approach to maintaining public safety. The false narrative regarding good refugee and bad economic migrant must be combatted with sound research and data regarding the benefits of migration. Elected representatives also have a responsibility to remind Irish people that increased development leads to increased mobility and vice versa. We have our own experience of the benefits of migration, inward and outwards.

We believe that governments need to do more to address the root causes of forced displacement, including war, violence, persecution and poverty, as well as to limit the impact of climate change. As Ireland is vying for a non-permanent seat on the UN Security Council for 2021, we are well placed to use our own historic experience as a conflict-affected country and a country of mass emigration. Ireland should actively seek out opportunities at the UN to broker and contribute to lasting and peaceful solutions in line with the commitments we made in our Constitution and the successes we have forged through initiatives such as the Irish-led international agreement to ban cluster munitions. Ireland has tremendous credibility in this space and it is time for us to leverage it.

We are at a watershed in our history. The time between now and 2018 is vital for Ireland and the EU to show the political commitment necessary to forge a comprehensive approach based on human rights principles which can provide lasting solutions to displacement. My colleague, Ms Suzanne Keatinge, will comment further on the UN summit and the implications of Ireland's engagement.

Ireland cannot continue to look away and pretend that this is a problem for others. We should not see refugees or migrants; we should see people, ordinary people from whom everything has been taken and who now find themselves in very desperate situations. Saving lives and protecting people must be the ultimate priority. Ireland has an important role to play in this regard. The committee can be part of leading the way. We look forward to working with the committee in the coming months on this issue.

Chairman:

Thank you.

Ms Suzanne Keatinge:

Good morning, I am from Dóchas. Like Mr. Clarken, I welcome the opportunity to meet with the committee today. That this is the first meeting of the newly formed committee and it has chosen to hold this hearing prior to going into recess for the summer shows the importance and urgency of the migration issue for the committee, for which I am grateful. By way of introduction, I am new to Dóchas. As I have been in my role for only four months, I fear committee members may know more about Dóchas than I do. Hopefully, this is the start of a journey and I will get the opportunity to address this committee on many occasions on important issues and I will get to know each of the committee members individually.

Dóchas is an umbrella organisation of more than 60 non-governmental organisations which acts as a forum for consultation and a common voice among its members in terms of engagement with Oireachtas committees and the Government on issues of development. Crucially, our members work overseas as a company by recognition of the importance of Irish Government policy at home in shaping our shared global future.

That role is particularly appropriate for this issue of migration in that what we do in Ireland will be seen and watched by others. As Mr. Clarken has said, it is our time to really show that leadership role and put our rights-based principles at the centre of our decision-making and policy.

I will not go more into the details because Mr. Clarken has well outlined the problem and the big issues. It is interesting that the summit will be held one year after we all woke to the horrific image of the young three-year old boy, Aylan Kurdi, washed up on a beach in Turkey on 15 September 2015. I do not if it was the same for the committee but it was one of those moments for me personally where I went through all the emotions of shock and horror and a sense of powerlessness and shame. Luckily for me, and possibly for my family, I have settled more on the emotion for urgency, and that this is not about business as usual. We knew this was not a once-off and know these family stories happen every day.

Earlier this week, I spoke to Médecins Sans Frontières, MSF. One of its colleagues has just come back from a month on the high seas, having worked on one of its rescue missions. It is a shame he was unable to come here today but maybe there will be another opportunity for him to do so. I was reminded of a recent report by MSF that claimed 2,800 people have already died this year making a perilous journey across the Mediterranean Sea. That is 1,000 more people than this time last year, which shows this problem is not going away. It is relevant that President Michael D. Higgins has on many occasions, but in particular for the world humanitarian summit, consistently said that this era of increased globalisation and migration is one of the greatest issues of the next decade.

I will now turn to what we can do and are doing. It is important first to say that for Dóchas members, and for those with whom we work in developing countries, migration from towns to cities across borders is a coping mechanism. It is important also to remind ourselves that the vast majority of refugees continue to be hosted by developing countries, particularly those that are in closest to the refugees' countries of origin. I was reminded of the following by Mr. John Ging when he recently addressed an Irish seminar on the World Humanitarian Summit. He said that the word "refugees" is a strange word because it conveys a sense of mobility. On average, we know that refugees spend 17 years in camps. I know that many members of this committee who have worked in Palestine will know that refugees in the Middle East stay in camps a lot longer than 17 years.

For Dóchas members, we have heard that Oxfam is doing a lot of work, as are many others such as ActionAid, Christian Aid, Concern, GOAL, Trócaire, World Vision Ireland and the Irish Red Cross. Many of their representatives are here today in the Gallery. Our members work in the crisis context and where conflicts are happening that force people to go on the move throughout Africa, Asia and the Middle East. They also support the efforts of neighbouring countries to deal with the large numbers of refugees in places like Jordan, Turkey, Kenya, Tanzania and many others. Equally important, they are now beginning to work much more in Europe and Ireland alongside many of the domestic agencies that do great work on issues around resettlement and relocation through a coalition of both domestic and international NGOs.

Regarding the high level meeting that will take place on 19 September, today's meeting is an opportunity to say that Ireland will play an important leadership role at the summit. The Chairman has already mentioned the important role played by Mr. David Donoghue. Yet again he is there and has been asked to co-chair the meeting with Jordan. It is testament to global perception that Ireland maintains its neutral and progressive foreign policy. It is also testament to his work in that he has a gift for getting tough negotiations over the line, as he did so well with the signing of the sustainable development goals this time last year.

I will outline the key moments or events before that summit and, indeed, afterwards. The deadline for this current phase of negotiations is tomorrow. We hope for and expect a political declaration, which will be known officially as the political declaration to address large movements of refugees and migrants. We are watching and waiting for that. Certainly, for civil society, we will examine it to see if it is as rights based and progressive as we have been seeking. Also, we are expecting an agreement on the development of the comprehensive refugee response framework. Our understanding is that it is beginning to discuss how we are going to do this. Remember, adherence to our obligations and monitoring them is as important as the political commitments themselves. Finally, we hope there will be a roadmap, at least, to develop a similar compact or response framework for the safe, orderly and regular movement of migrants. We realise this is a complex issue and that multiple layers must be examined so we do not expect that to be concluded until 2018.

It is important to note that there have been intense negotiations over the past two months, led by David Donoghue, but this is just the beginning of the process. We must keep engaged, and keep the committee up to date and engaged, on this longer journey. We hope that by the September summit there will be a strong political will and commitment to sign the political declaration, which will at least give us a framework to equip us better to support countries of origin and receiving countries to uphold rights around the protection of refugees.

Turning to what we will be calling on the committee to do, it is most important to ensure that the Irish Government lives up to its responsibility. Specifically, we ask the committee to write to the Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade, Deputy Charles Flanagan, to ask that Ireland prioritise five key issues both in the preparations for the meeting and also in the outcomes of that meeting. The first is to ensure that the political declaration reflects a clear commitment to prioritising international legal obligations and, as Jim Clarken outlined, the essential obligation in the 1951 convention and the 1967 protocol on the status of refugees.

Second, we must ensure that funding to tackle the refugee crisis is additional to, and not contained within, the existing commitment to overseas development assistance, ODA. We can be very proud of Ireland's record on this to date in that it has not counted its commitments to taking refugees within its ODA calculations. Unfortunately, that position is not shared by many other European countries. We also commend Irish Aid on continuing to see its ODA as a vital tool to fight poverty and inequality in least developed countries, as clearly outlined in its "One World, One Future" policy. It is critical that we not only seek to provide new additional resources, such as supporting the life saving naval support in the Mediterranean, but also ensure that this does not compromise or eat into existing commitments on ODA spending. We will look to Ireland to influence others, particularly the European Union, to follow suit. There have been worrying signs that this is not the case. We must stop placing conditions, particularly migration control indicators, on the allocation of development or humanitarian aid funding. We have been looking at some of the EU trust funds in west Africa and the conditions being placed on support to people in need, which is setting a dangerous precedent.

Third, we ask that Ireland is represented at this meeting at the highest level by the Taoiseach. That will signal a clear political commitment that we see this as an urgent and important issue. Fourth, it is about ensuring that civil society is an integral partner in the preparation and implementation of the outcomes of this meeting. We would be concerned that while there has been civil society consultation, in Ireland it has not been so forthcoming in terms of continual and systematic consultation with us.

We have also been asking that there is civil society representation on the official delegation to the summit. We are clear that this representation has to extend further, to the people who are themselves affected. We have to listen and take account of the voices of the affected populations, of the migrants and refugees themselves. Ultimately, we need to respect their agency, but they also have to be at the centre of decision-making.

My last point relates to Ireland's already strong commitment and leadership in relation to gender. I do not know why this topic is always last, but it is certainly not least. We ask Ireland to seek, in particular, that the outcomes from the high-level meeting reflect a strong commitment to protecting and empowering women and girls affected by migration. We already have a strong national action plan that includes those commitments to protecting and empowering children and we very much welcome that this is included in the programme for partnership Government. However, it must continue to be a central theme. We have to ensure, in particular, that protection of women and girls is central to policy-making. Our members are doing a great deal of specific work there. There are practical solutions and there is detailed evidence of the effect of migration on women and girls, so let us hear that and use it, so that we have strong policy-making around gender equality.

Those are the five key requests in the run-up to the summit, but we need to ensure that we continue to see those after the summer and in the recommendations over the next few years. It is appropriate to end with a quote from President Michael D. Higgins, who, as many members know, has been a champion of so many of these issues and, more important, a champion of the values we have been talking about today. At the recent World Humanitarian Summit in Istanbul, as well as at the Dóchas annual conference today, he spoke about the need for us to move from rhetoric to action. More specifically, he said "[f]or too long, empty pledges and fine words have died in our mouths - now is the time to turn promises into action for this generation".

Chairman:

I thank Ms Keatinge and Mr. Clarken for their very comprehensive contributions. Both outlined the very desperate position affecting so many millions of innocent people throughout the world. Mr. Clarken spoke about people who have lost everything. There are major challenges and there is a need for an adequate global response, which has, unfortunately, not been forthcoming to date. Time is not on the side of anybody. International solidarity is needed, as is momentum. We need the international community not just to make pledges, but to live up to the commitments which are spoken about and will be given at high-level summits. Those of us who have been in public life for some time will be familiar with the work of H.E. David Donoghue, the Irish ambassador to the UN, in Northern Ireland, going back to my early days in politics. He is an extremely good public servant and someone of whom we can be proud. It is good to know he is a co-facilitator on this.

Mr. Clarken said that politicians worldwide have been stoking fears. For the record of this meeting, I want to qualify that. It would be unfair to generalise in regard to such an important and sensitive subject and to say that politicians worldwide have been doing this. Individuals have, but the body of public representatives would not be put into that category. I just wanted to clarify that for the record and for the transcript of this meeting.

Darragh O'Brien (Dublin Fingal, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the witnesses very much for their presentations and for the very clear way in which they have outlined the major issues we face. The summit in September is an ideal opportunity for Ireland to take leadership on this. I have a couple of questions for both Ms Keatinge and Mr. Clarken, or whoever wants to take them. I would like the witnesses' views on the third party arrangement, the partnership framework on migrants, if one takes the EU-Turkey deal to be the first such deal. I asked a parliamentary question about this. Are the witnesses aware that the EU has five other deals in the offing with Niger, Nigeria, Mali, Ethiopia and Senegal, plus another ten on top of that?

When we talk about Ireland taking a lead in response to our concerns, it is my clear view that Ireland cannot take a lead if it just becomes part of an European bloc in respect of migration. I would like to know the views of witnesses in regard to the further roll-out of the migration partnership frameworks with third countries. The witnesses clearly outlined their view, which I share, that a diminution of the rights of asylum seekers and refugees in these situations is clearly happening.

My second question relates to Ireland taking a lead in dealing with migration. Ireland is miles behind on its commitments. The most recent figures I secured on 20 July 2016 in response to a parliamentary question are that 273 people were here on the resettlement programme, while under the relocation programme, which is most urgent, 38 people were brought to Ireland.

How often do NGOs receive updates on the roll-out of the programmes? We made a commitment to take 4,000 people, which is lower than the number of people that Irish citizens would like to help. There were major commitments. Ms Suzanne Keatinge mentioned the words of Uachtarán na hÉireann in regard to empty promises and commitments and fine words. The reality is the pathetic numbers who have been helped. We have to get past the stage where we blame the processing system in Greece and other countries. We sent seven officials from the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade to assist in the speeding up of the process. What commitments have the Government given to the non-governmental organisations who are represented at this committee to expedite this programme? If Ireland is to lead, it can be asked how it proposes to lead these programmes when effectively it has brought in just over 300 people, having made a commitment to take in 4,000. I put it to witnesses that our credibility is shot in that regard, notwithstanding the long record we have, in particular on official development assistance, ODA, in respect of funding.

Ms Keatinge made the point that funding should be additional to our ODA commitments. I use the example of the €20.9 million that Ireland has committed under the EU-Turkey agreement. Have the organisations received any commitments? I have sought information on commitments but have not got it in respect of whether all the money is being spent specifically on refugee and asylum seekers' care and not security or border posts, or trying to restrict people's movements. I wish to hear her view on that. The committee will be seeking further commitments from Government in that regard.

I know that on 9 September 2015, the Government had a round-table meeting with all NGOs to try to respond to this crisis in a cohesive way. Are there plans for another round-table meeting in advance of the UN summit? Has the Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade, Deputy Flanagan, or the Minister of State at the Department, Deputy McHugh, made contact to have another round-table meeting to follow up on our progress in the past year in meeting our commitments? I am not laying everything at the door of the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade, but these officials can actually speed up the process. All the members of this committee are fully committed. I know the point Mr. Jim Clarken was making in respect of the Brexit campaign and the rise of xenophobia, following the anti-asylum seekers, anti-refugee and anti-foreigner rhetoric that appals all people. I wonder how clear Mr. Clarken is on what Ireland's message will be at the UN summit.

I may have more questions later, but that is enough for the present.

Chairman:

I thank Deputy O'Brien for his questions.

Seán Crowe (Dublin South West, Sinn Fein)
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Go raibh maith agat, a Chathaoirligh. Cuirim fáilte roimh na finnéithe to the meeting this morning. Deputy Darragh O'Brien raised the progress on the EU-Turkey agreement and that Turkey is a country of safe origin. Do the witnesses have a view on that, particularly in respect of the latest attempted coup and the idea of an EU partnership deal which rewards countries which will try to stem the tide of migration to Europe and facilitate forcible returns?

One witness spoke about the shock and horror at the drowning of Aylan Kurdi and the urgency generated by this incident at that time.

Do the witnesses have a sense that this urgency still exists, particularly in light of people linking migrants to the recent attacks in Europe? I am conscious that people at home are listening to this debate. How would the witnesses respond to those who believe the crises in housing, health and education mean we have to look after our own people before taking in those from other countries? I am conscious that we need to bring those who hold such beliefs along with us as we make changes.

What do the witnesses think the UN Summit for Refugees and Migrants can realistically achieve? Would they have concerns about Ireland's decision to adopt the EU position rather than its own unique position? They outlined a number of key points in that regard. What should Ireland be saying separately from the EU? Should Ireland adopt the EU position?

I wish to ask the witnesses about unaccompanied children and the background to their arrival in Europe. Reference has been made to a child who died on a beach. There seems to be a lack of urgency from Europe and from Ireland with regard to these children. Some of the figures in this respect have been mentioned. Will the witnesses give us some background details? Where are these children coming from? Are they travelling alone? Were their parents killed while they were travelling or were they separated from them? Are they travelling to meet family members in other parts of Europe? Why is there such a lack of urgency among European countries in respect of this matter? One would have thought that children in these camps would be met with a humanitarian response. The witnesses outlined the difficulties that such children can face, such as being pulled into crime and sex work.

Reference has been made to the Palestinian situation. Many of the Palestinians who are coming from Yarmouk in Syria are arriving in Greece and are deemed to be UN migrants. There is a difficulty when they arrive in Europe. Could the witnesses outline the difficulties faced by those who are officially UN migrants or refugees but who, when they arrive in Europe, are not being treated as such for some reason?

I think Ireland is contributing €19 million to the EU asylum, migration and integration fund, which is available to countries within Europe. Are the witnesses aware of how this fund is being spent? Is there is a lack of transparency regarding what it is spent on, particularly in Ireland? I understand that countries receive between €6,000 and €10,000 per resettled person. It almost seems that there is a blanket ban on information regarding how it is spent in Europe. I would be concerned if it were invested in direct provision, for example. I do not think that is the right area. Are there concerns in respect of Europe? Is it a question of building borders? Where is this money being spent? It is clear that it is not all being spent. It seems crazy that this money is not being spent at a time when there are huge difficulties in some countries, particularly southern countries such as Greece and Italy.

There is a direct correlation between conflict, climate change and migration. According to a new report, some €1 billion is being spent on arms that are being transported to Turkey, Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates and then put into direct use into the conflicts in Syria and Iraq. The countries that are selling those weapons have an appalling stance on migration. They do not seem to see the direct correlation. Countries that are involved in bombing campaigns are among the first to close their borders to migrants who are fleeing conflicts. I suggest there is some hypocrisy in our position on that.

Maureen O'Sullivan (Dublin Central, Independent)
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I thank the witnesses for their presentation. I am glad developing countries have been mentioned because we need to reflect on the extent of the work being done by fragile countries that have many needs of their own.

It is as though the poorest in the world are looking after and supporting those who are even poorer. That leads me to consider whether there is a need to rethink how we fund this whole area of migration. Are we ensuring that the funding is going into those areas of greatest need? I was just speaking to somebody who is back from Lesbos and was full of admiration for what ordinary Greek people and some of the small groups in society are doing there. She outlined to me the pressure that is on the Greek health system because they are trying to do so much. I have questions about whether we are putting the funding to the very best use. We had another meeting with a group about Syria recently and the group raised grave concerns about the apparent lack of collaboration between various NGOs working there. It is almost as if each of them has carved out its niche and is not giving anything on it. To me, it should be about coming together to see how we can work together, collaborate and divide the funding so that we do not have an overlap. This matter has been raising quite a number of alarm bells with me recently. I believe it would be good if we could start with almost a blank canvas in order that the funding could go directly where it is most needed.

The second point I wish to make is that we understand that conflict drives people from their homes. It is a question of their safety. The other factors that are driving people from their homes are a lack of human rights and food insecurity. To me, that is the bigger picture and that is where we are not doing enough. We are not doing enough to support people to stay in their countries of origin. Nobody should have to leave unless he or she really wants to, in my opinion. We look at countries the people are fleeing from and the appalling human rights and food insecurity in those countries. That brings me to how Western countries are undermining the ability of these countries to feed themselves through some of these appalling economic partnership agreements we are seeing, such as CETA. We speak out of both sides of our mouth all of the time. We have to grasp this, be much straighter than we have been and not give with one hand while taking with the other.

We spoke about vulnerable groups. There is one group that has not been mentioned, and another person I know has been doing some study on it. The group is young LGBT people who have been displaced. It is absolutely horrific for them and there is a lack of support. The other group I wish to mention is people with a disability. Those people get lost.

Finally, is the migration partnership framework really fit for purpose? I was on the Turkish-Syrian border a couple of years ago with one of the NGOs and I was commending Turkey at that stage. However, recent events are raising alarm bells about Turkey. We have seen the way in which people from the judiciary and the teaching profession have been taken to jail as well as, very alarmingly, the press. There is a whole suppression of freedom of the press.

Mark Daly (Fianna Fail)
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I thank the witnesses for their presentation. Many questions have been asked already and I will not repeat them. The statistic of 90,000 unaccompanied children is the most shocking, as well as the treatment of women who are trying to seek refugee status in Europe and how they disappear in the process.

There are two questions I would like to ask about matters that my colleague Deputy Darragh O'Brien and others have touched upon. One of them is about the EU-Turkey deal, which goes against all previous treatment of refugees. I ask the witnesses for their view on the deal and on Ireland's support for it. Quite frankly, what do the witnesses think of Ireland giving money under that deal? We have other EU programmes under which all of the money is put into a pot - sometimes I call it a black hole - and there is no transparency thereafter. We do not know where our money is going on that EU-Turkey deal and we seek clarity on that. If there is no clarity, we should stop giving the money. I would prefer it to be going to the likes of the NGOs represented today and others who are giving direct assistance.

In relation to the conference, the EU will have its own position. What should Ireland's position be, independent of the EU? The EU will obviously compromise and move a limited distance. What should Ireland seek on that deal?

The committee will have to forgive me as I have to go another meeting. I will get the transcripts of the replies.

Chairman:

I thank Senator Daly. I will ask Mr. Clarken, Ms Keatinge and their colleagues to respond to that group of four contributors. The next group of speakers will start with Senator Bacik. I ask that responses be as concise as possible.

Mr. Jim Clarken:

Great. I will let my colleagues answer most of the questions. However, I shall clarify the correction and thank the Chairman for that. I should have said "some politicians". Obviously it is not everyone and we would not dream of suggesting that.

There is a lot of expertise around this table and I will allow individual members address some of the issues. Ms Ryan wishes to speak specifically to the EU deal and Ms Finan will speak to the summit and those issues. Ms Ní Chéilleachair will also make a contribution.

Ms Marissa Ryan:

I thank the Chairman and the committee members. It is a testament to the level of knowledge the committee has already developed on migration that automatically everyone here is familiar with the EU vis-à-visIreland's response. It is very easy and admirable for us to try to talk about Ireland playing a leadership role, and of course we should strive towards that. However, I completely agree with Deputy O'Brien that Ireland is already almost a laughing stock. While David Donoghue is a very accomplished diplomat who is doing as good a job as he possibly can in very difficult circumstances, Ireland was asked to co-chair the summit negotiations because migration is not a specifically politically sensitive issue in Ireland. The State does not receive a whole lot of migrants because of its geographical location and traditionally it has not mounted a very strong political discourse on the same. The situation here is dissimilar to the situation in Jordan, the co-chair of the summit and the host for the majority of people who have been displaced by the war in Syria. Ireland's situation regarding migrants is also very different from countries such as Denmark for example, which is experiencing a wave of migration. That is the reality in which the summit negotiations are happening.

It is against that backdrop that I and Oxfam would be very critical of Ireland's role within the EU's response. Over the past year we have seen the EU respond to a very manageable spike in the numbers of migrants arriving into the EU, which at 1 million is proportionately a very, very small figure. The European Union bloc went completely mad, called a UN General Assembly summit, dragged other regional blocs kicking and screaming to the negotiations, held them for a very short time which is difficult if one is thinking of negotiating a whole global solidarity deal. Simultaneously, the EU has not been willing itself to make actual political commitments. Therefore, we have Latin American countries and the African group of countries coming together to say that for them migration is something that happens every single day. They have millions of people who are displaced, for generations, in those countries. They do not have the luxury of calling a UN summit every year to discuss the issues. They ask what is the EU putting on the table. Even in negotiating tactics, the European bloc, which Ireland has been part of, is being extremely poor. It has turned down the opportunity to create an operational framework which would address issues such as expanded resettlement opportunities. There is no mechanism for real responsibility sharing and the negotiations will end tomorrow. Oxfam and a number of other civil society organisations have been quite clear that, ultimately, we may be forced to condemn the outcomes because they fall short of the existing human rights obligations in the refugee convention. That is the backdrop to what we are talking about today.

The countries who host 86% of displaced people are asking what the EU thought was going to happen after the EU-Turkey deal. The obligations to human rights have been outsourced and people's lives are being bartered. Kenya is now going to close camps for people who have been displaced by the Somalia crisis because why should it shoulder responsibility when the EU member states will not?

It is very difficult to say that Ireland can, or will, play a leadership position. There is potential for traction if we can get our act together and get our house in order. One of the things which has been absent from the summit is political commitment. We are now looking at a situation where outcome documents that should have been strong and operational have been compromised and will be let go up until 2018 for lack of political commitment. I do not see how that is going to change between now and then, especially at EU level, with the rise of racism and xenophobia across Europe.

There is potential for Ireland, and specifically for members of this committee and their parties, to engage, scrutinise and talk to the other EU member states about what a rational and humane response would be. This is a manageable situation. It is not something we are overwhelmed by. Look at what is being done domestically. As Deputy O'Brien and Senator Daly have already pointed out, Ireland has not even taken in the 4,000 refugees as committed to in the refugee protection programme.

Our existing asylum system takes in approximately 1,500 per year. In the meantime, children are languishing in Greece, women are being harassed on the borders of Europe and the vast majority of people are sitting in development countries which can barely provide essential services to their own citizens let alone to this new spike of displaced people. While it is good that Ireland should play a leadership role, that role should involve getting our own house in order and then trying to play a sensible role within the EU bloc.

Deputy Crowe referred to the EU-Turkey deal and the EU trust fund for Africa. I agree it is difficult to see how our official development assistance, ODA, is being used in these places where border security is being washed in alongside aid. We all know that the idea behind this aid is that it can curb migration, but we all also know that increased development means increased mobility and that should not be seen as a problem.

There are two calls on Ireland. The first is to play a respectable and responsible role by working with Departments such as the Department of Justice and Equality in the context of overseeing our domestic programmes. The second is to look at how we in Europe can play a more coherent and sensible role.

Ms Louise Finan:

I am delighted to have the opportunity to be here today before the committee breaks for summer. To start with the positive, it is wonderful to hear informed and engaged questions and statements from the committee. I thank it for them. Further, despite the concerns and misgivings civil society may have, on a personal level I think it is really good that states are talking to each other about refugees and migration. Frankly, they have been ignoring this problem for a long time. I should not use the word "problem" because I am feeding into that rhetoric. It is a problem because we have made it a problem, but it should not be. The movement of people has happened for centuries and this should not be seen as a problem. We should be there to facilitate the protection of people. I hope that the preparations for the high level meeting in New York bear fruit and we get some kind of realistic solution for the millions of people stuck in limbo.

I have been working on the Syrian and Iraqi conflicts for the past two years with Christian Aid. The Syrians I have met, who are in Lebanon and Iraq, are tired of hearing western governments say that potentially they will do something about it and that they will give more money to various aid programmes. They want to have dignified lives. They want to be able to work. They are not so concerned about where they were living or about coming to Europe. They were quite happy to stay in the first safe place they reached. However, after a year of being there, it would be nice to try to earn a living in a dignified way. It would be good to be able to send one's child to school. It would be good to be able to access health care. Every one of us would want the same.

Bringing it down to the very humanity of the situation, we hope these discussions in New York will achieve some traction and some change in the daily lives of refugees. We also hope western countries will actually bear some responsibility and that we are not just seen as donors or paying off other nations to deal with the problem but rather as countries that are willing to shoulder some of the responsibility.

I will not say much more because I would be repeating the contributions of others. However, on the Palestinian-Syrian question, Christian Aid has partners in Lebanon which have been working to support Palestinian Syrians for the past number of years. They are, frankly speaking, at the bottom of the pile of refugees in Lebanon and in host countries. As a result of their specific status, they are not entitled to claim asylum once they reach Europe, so they are in a limbo. They are also not entitled to work in any of the host countries or to access basic services. In fact, most of them are not legally allowed to be in the countries in which they are currently living in the region surrounding Syria. I am, therefore, very glad that question was posed. I would like the issue to be raised continually.

Ms Réiseal Ní Chéilleachair:

Trócaire has been working on its response to the EU-Turkey deal for a number of months. There was a debate in the Dáil on it recently and there is general concern that the deal is not in support of human rights and the protection of refugees. That needs to be followed up.

We have recently put together an analysis of the migration partnership framework and our greatest concern is that security and conditionality are being given greater consideration than protection needs and people's human rights. It includes positive and negative incentives for non-EU countries to co-operate in curtailing migration and it proposes a reorientation of the EU's development co-operation towards halting migration, which goes against the whole spirit of development co-operation as this should be to the benefit of the most vulnerable and marginalised in developing countries. This is not in the interest of people who need support, assistance and protection from Europe.

I am grateful to Deputy Darragh O'Brien for submitting parliamentary questions on the issues of funding and numbers. Oxfam, Trócaire and others in the coalition of Irish and international NGOs have been calling for the 4,000 refugees to be expedited. The commitment is to do it by the end of 2017 but our call in December was for people to be brought in as soon as possible to allow them protection, to allow their children to go to school and for basic provisions to be put in place to support them.

A question was asked on unaccompanied minors. In Greece and Serbia children, particularly young boys, have been moving alone for many months. The great fear is of recruitment and the only way to protect a child from being recruited is to have him sent away. The other burning issue for families is education and Syrian children are losing out by being out of school for three or four years at a time, years which parents fear they will never get back. If they are not put into accelerated education when they come to other countries how will they catch up? How will they be able to learn and make a contribution to society?

Chairman:

I will ask Ms Keatinge to come in but we also need to take another round of questions.

Ms Suzanne Keatinge:

Deputy Crowe asked about looking after our own position. That is valid but it is also important that we resist the narrative that these people are here to take our jobs. It is important to note that good analysis is coming through on the economic benefits of migration. A recent report of the IMF states that aggregate GDP across the 28 nation-EU will rise by 0.13% in 2017 as a result of the current trend in migration.

Deputy Maureen O'Sullivan asked about the lack of collaboration by NGOs. It is appropriate for Dóchas to hear of this and I will not defend it in any way. We have to constantly seek ways of collaborating and that is what we are trying to do in Ireland. Reference was made to the coalition and it is very important that domestic and international NGOs are coming together to look at the multiple aspects of this problem. Deputy O'Brien asked about the level of consultation among NGOs and I agree that there needs to be more of it. I am not aware of anything having been planned ahead of the summit but there is a briefing, though not a consultation, by the Department of Foreign Affairs at 3 p.m. today. We would welcome more dialogue on this.

Chairman:

I thank Ms Suzanne Keatinge for that input. I now call Senator Ivana Bacik.

Ivana Bacik (Independent)
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I thank all the representatives for their eloquent and comprehensive contributions. Other members have asked some wide-ranging questions but I will ask three specific ones. I apologise for the fact that I may have to leave before the representatives respond. I am obliged to attend another meeting at 1 p.m.

This is an issue very close to my heart because my family came here from the what was then Czechoslovakia in the 1940s to seek refuge. All of us are very much touched by these issues. My first question relates to the contribution of Ms Suzanne Keatinge from Dóchas and the five recommendations she has asked the joint committee to make. I am sure there would be support among members to write to the Minister for Foreign for Foreign Affairs and Trade, as Ms Keatinge suggested, to ask that Ireland prioritise those five issues. They seem very sensible and to be a good way of engaging constructively with the summit to ensure it achieves positive outcomes. Can we, as a committee, do that?

My second question relates to the EU-Turkey deal. Many of us have talked about our deep concerns about it, about the European Commission's approach and so on. Can our guests advise what effect they hope the UN summit in September might have on improving outcomes relating to that deal or in changing EU policies? In a joint statement made in June prior to the meeting of the European Council, 104 European NGOs, including Oxfam and Trócaire, used very strong language to condemn EU policies and called for a rejection of the Commission's communication. Are the representatives hopeful or do they anticipate that there might be a change to EU policy as a result of the UN summit? Is there a way we can help to change that policy?

My third question relates to our response in Ireland. I was formerly a member of the justice committee and we certainly expressed support for and welcomed the decision taken by Government last year to admit 4,000 people. The intention was that this number would be doubled when family reunification was built into the equation. However, many of us have expressed concern about the slow progress in accepting these people. The most recent communication from the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade indicates that and additional 131 people will be relocated from Greece very shortly and that there will be 40 persons arriving every four weeks. That is very slow progress. Have our guests any ideas as to how we can expedite matters? We have all made political calls to that effect. How can it be done? In particular, can we look at other safe and legal channels to Europe, including innovative schemes around academic exchanges and so on? There have been calls from a number of NGOs to do that. This is a practical way in which we might all seek to work to bring in more people more swiftly.

Chairman:

I know the Senator has another commitment. With the agreement of the committee, we will write to the Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade detailing the proposals that have been put to us. I indicate that for the information of the Senator before she takes her leave.

Ivana Bacik (Independent)
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I thank the Chairman. I appreciate that. I thought there would be support for the suggestion.

Tony McLoughlin (Sligo-Leitrim, Fine Gael)
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I thank the representatives for being here and for their frank and informative contributions. Quite a number of the questions that I wanted to pose have already been asked. Mr. Clarken said that the contribution of the rich countries is in the region of 9%. Perhaps he might elaborate on that. With regard to the EU-Turkey deal, there must be great concern about the events that happened in that country recently. Reference was made to this but the representatives might elaborate further on the matter.

Ms Suzanne Keatinge mentioned five issues, including making a political declaration and influencing others. She might provide more detail on that. Also, the representatives might advise what we can do to live up to the Government's commitment to accept 4,000 people. I appreciate that a very small number have arrived to date.

Billy Lawless (Independent)
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I can tell Ms Suzanne Keatinge that before he ever became President, Michael D. Higgins always stood up for the underprivileged and the downtrodden. I am never surprised by what he does. I have always admired him.

My adopted country is the United States of America. I have been appointed as a Senator to represent the diaspora and the Irish abroad.

Reference has been made to refugees. The stoking of fears in regard to refugees in the United States is unbelievable. Mothers and children are fleeing Central America via the border between Mexico and the United States. They are fleeing rape, murder and trafficking. They are stopped at the border and then they are brought before the court to be deported. Children as young as five and six have no legal representation. I have spoken with American legal counsel on the matter. The situation is atrocious. From the time they apply, it takes up to three years for a refugee to be able to enter the United States of America. We see the terrible migration that has taken place in Europe. We have taken in nobody in the United States. The UN summit is taking place in New York. It might not be any harm to remind the United States of its responsibility, as the wealthiest country in the world, and how it should tackle this problem. Ireland has influence. We have proven that ourselves in the few short years I have been in the United States where we have influenced legislation. We are still highly regarded and we punch way above our weight. We should always remember that. The US Government needs to be reminded.

Deputy Crowe made the point that climate change has a lot to do with the movement of people. One could not believe the number of people in the United States of America who do not believe climate change is happening. Those are issues we need to remind the US Government about and how they should be tackled. We definitely have the influence to do that.

Ms Lynn Boylan:

Thank you, Chair, for allowing me to contribute. I have two questions. The EU-Turkey deal has been raised and I have concerns about that also.

My first concern relates to the FRONTEX mark two agreement, which is known as the European Border and Coast Guard Agency. I have serious concerns about the mobilisation of 1,500 border agents who seem to be able to intervene in various member states to close their borders even if the member state has not requested assistance. I would like to hear the panel's opinion on the deal. Another issue relates to the oversight of the agency, which does not appear to be accountable to any democratic body.

My other question relates to the security meeting at the UN and what the Government should discuss about concerns within the EU on the behaviour of member states. We are rightly concerned about what is happening outside the EU's borders and in third countries such as Turkey, but should we also raise concerns about member states, in particular Hungary where tear gas and dogs were used against women and children? Will we use our position to raise such issues because they are happening within the EU itself? Following Brexit, we will see whether Britain will end up in the EU or not. A racist policy appears to be creeping through the EU. I refer to the wearing of armbands to distinguish refugees and the painting of doors when they are rehomed. Should we raise those issues at the UN summit? In addition, should we raise best practice? I have read that the new Portuguese Government has gone to Greece to skills match in order to employ people. They know what the skills deficits are within Portugal. Many Syrian refugees in particular are highly qualified and educated and surely the Government should be doing something similar. We have skills deficits, in particular in the area of IT. One could ask whether there is an opportunity in that regard. We should look at examples of best practice in other EU member states, in addition to bad practice and we should raise both at the UN summit.

Alice-Mary Higgins (Independent)
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I thank the witnesses for their presentations.

Many strong points have been made. I refer to the issue of gender, building on the points made by Lynn Boylan MEP. There are specific gender concerns in terms of the European response as well. For example, the European Women's Lobby has produced a strong pan-European response, which is worth considering in examining the specific issues relating to gender

On the issue of unaccompanied minors, there has been a push from within society in Ireland to expedite the State's response in that regard.

The EU-Turkey deal has been raised extensively in the Seanad because concern has been building. The committee may discuss the deal in the future and press for a review of it. It was pressed for strongly during the final week of the Seanad term.

I would like to make a practical suggestion regarding the letter to be sent by the committee. As well as the strong and useful points put forward by Ms Keatinge, a few strong points have been made by committee members, particularly in regard to Ireland's seeking to expedite its response in advance of the summit in September and at least have a clear track. The proposal to transfer 40 refugees every four weeks is not adequate. Deputy O'Brien suggested a round-table discussion with NGOs. The letter should include suggestions about expediting the State's response and the potential for a civil society round-table in advance of the summit. They might just build on the other suggestions.

I do not know if the EU-Turkey deal should be the subject of a separate letter. That is for committee members to decide but we need to know what is happening regarding Ireland's response to this within Europe and what is the European response.

Chairman:

Our letter to the Minister for Foreign Affairs will reflect the views and proposals put forward by our members as well as those put forward by the NGOs.

Mr. Jim Clarken:

I might let some colleagues make a few comments, and I will make a closing statement if this is our final opportunity to contribute.

Chairman:

There may be supplementary questions from the party spokespersons.

Ms Réiseal Ní Chéilleachair:

I will respond to Senator Bacik's questions on the EU-Turkey deal. The response to the NGOs on the partnership framework has been very disappointing. Civil society has raised red flags about the protection of civilians and the rolling back on human rights frameworks and conventions and so on. It is a continuous issue where concerns are raised but the deal is steamrolling ahead. This is linked to the point about whether the concerns expressed in the Dáil debate about the deal were articulated at a European level. I do not know if that was the case or whether there is still an opportunity to do that and I do not know whether there is an opt-out from the deal, particularly when a funding contribution is being made to it.

Reference was made to slow progress and the number of clerical and legal staff available to process claims. In our paper published yesterday, which has been circulated to members, we took data from IOM, which provides numbers for stranded people. As of 13 July, there were 57,000 stranded migrants in Greece and 1,971 in Bulgaria. "Stranded" means they can be kept in a detention centre for 28 days before they must be released. However, the options available to them then are limited. There is little support other than that provided by NGOs. Greece is under strain in attempting to provide people with the legal support and administrative assistance they need.

Yes, Portugal is a good example, as is Canada. Over the past six months, Canada's contribution to providing spaces for refugees and the way it has handled the processing arrangements in Lebanon have been fantastic. In Canada, every Department has been involved and engaged in the processing, the security screening and everything, which is equally important. Moreover, everything has been done at scale to make sure people are allowed to move and to seek refugee status in Canada quickly.

On FRONTEX mark 2, while I do not have specific information on the border agents, the oversight mechanisms are of huge concern. It is opaque and the outsourcing of security from the EU to Libyan forces, for example, is an enormous concern. So many things are happening so quickly, that it must be highly transparent and as a member state, Ireland has both a buy-in and an enormous responsibility.

Ms Marissa Ryan:

I can group together a couple of questions. Senator Bacik first asked whether it is likely.

Ivana Bacik (Independent)
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I apologise, I cannot stay for that.

Ms Marissa Ryan:

That is fine, the Senator can read the transcript. Essentially, she had asked whether it was likely that the outcomes of the UN summit would improve the EU's performance in response to migration. It is unlikely; the negotiations finish tomorrow. As I mentioned previously, at present we have a text that falls below existing standards and no agreement across the EU on whether it will even agree, beyond a political declaration, any comprehensive measures for responsibility-sharing that are tangible. The real worry is that states can now go ahead and assert that pretty much any measure, such as those taken in Australia, represents responsibility-sharing but actually they are fundamentally breaching human rights. In addition, as this summit was called before the spike in migration really took off in Europe, the performance on migration of some parts of the regional bloc, such as the Visegrad Group, was not really anticipated. A more splintered and fractured EU has since come together to try to negotiate a deal alongside other political environment issues such as Brexit and so on. I believe everyone is aware that one thing for which Theresa May, MP, was famous was those disgraceful vans that were driven around ethnically diverse areas telling people to just go home. It was not anticipated that such issues would have an impact on EU co-ordination in advance of the summit but they subsequently have been brought to bear. Oxfam does not necessarily see the summit as something positive in the improvement of protection in the future.

As for what Ireland can do in terms of best practice, there also is a good case from Brazil about a humanitarian admissions programme. Ireland has already initiated one called the Syrian humanitarian admission programme, which was specific to Syrians. It allows people from the Syrian community who are settled and have status already in Ireland to bring in family members. They are obliged to support them themselves and so on but it was a good step. A number of domestic agencies, including Nasc, the Irish Refugee Council and so on, are now lobbying for an extension of that to be simply a humanitarian admissions programme. This is because, as we have mentioned, more than half of all people who are refugees come from three countries, namely, Afghanistan, Somalia and Syria, and this would take into account the protection needs of people who are stranded from outside of Syria. This is a measure that could be useful and positive in the future for the Department of Justice and Equality, with support from the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade.

On the subject of FRONTEX mark 2, Oxfam in Ireland does not cover that specifically, our Oxfam Brussels office does so. I was engaged with it recently on concerns that had been touted about where the EU is now drawing the border. It looks as though it is now in the middle of the Sahel, because there were discussions on the remit of the agency allowing the potential for what is essentially a security force to intercept boats and bring them back to the countries of origin. This would mean the right to seek asylum and the right to fair process would be eradicated absolutely because there is no possibility that one can have a fair and efficient asylum procedure if one is being intercepted by an EU patrol and brought back to Libya or Eritrea. My understanding is the European Parliament intervened on this specific clause and is engaged in trying to negotiate a sensible position on that but I share Ms Boylan's concerns.

Six months ago, the Department of Justice and Equality released a press statement about the refugee protection programme at the end of which was a footnote stating that Ireland, while not a FRONTEX member, was considering contributing more border security personnel. I would encourage the committee to look at that as well in the context of the oversight of Ireland's international response.

I will return to something Deputy Crowe said. As an agency that works on economic inequality in Europe as well - and which campaigns on that in Ireland and elsewhere - Oxfam is acutely aware of the discussions on doorsteps with those who ask how can we be expected to bring in large numbers of refugees and look after them when there are terrible problems at home, such as the homelessness and housing crises. However, Ireland is the fourth richest EU member state. The impacts of austerity need to be negotiated with a whole-of-government and more comprehensive approach. Ireland has the ability to support and resettle refugees, as we have demonstrated in the past in response to many different humanitarian disasters. It is a question of political will and oversight. Organisations such as Oxfam that look at issues such as tax justice - which is fundamental to bringing in increased revenue and, therefore, provides the ability for both developing countries and countries such as Ireland to hold multinationals to account for paying the correct amount of corporate tax and have a better ability to respond to basic needs of both our own population and populations at risk overseas - are willing to work with the committee around that kind of discourse.

Chairman:

I thank Ms Marissa Ryan. Does Mr. Clarken wish to comment?

Mr. Jim Clarken:

Do the members have supplementary questions?

Darragh O'Brien (Dublin Fingal, Fianna Fail)
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I have a couple of brief ones, if that is okay.

Chairman:

We will take those now.

Darragh O'Brien (Dublin Fingal, Fianna Fail)
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Before we conclude, it is important to put on record our respect for the work that is being carried out by the Naval Service in search-and-rescue missions in the Mediterranean. In stark contrast to some other countries, we are rescuing people. We are not turning them away. It is a dangerous and harrowing job and I want to put on record the thanks of my party for the work the members of the Naval Service they are doing.

While I note that we are sending a letter to the Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade, following on from the point made by Senator Higgins and me, I am baffled that a round-table discussion involving Irish NGOs has not been convened since September 2015. There was a commitment at that meeting in September 2015 that there would be a follow-up. While I welcome the briefing today - and I do not wish to take away from any of the officials within the Department - this committee should call for a round-table discussion to be convened by the relevant Minister with the Irish NGOs and other interested bodies in advance of the upcoming summit, which will be co-chaired by him and his officials. That is a must. Even the idea of not doing so, and not seeking the advice of all these groups that are working on the migrant crisis across the globe, beggars belief. Following this meeting, I hope that will happen. We should highlight that issue clearly in a separate specific letter. I assume that the Irish NGOs and others which are not before the committee today would be flexible and would welcome such a meeting, even at short notice.

I again thank the witnesses for attending.

Maureen O'Sullivan (Dublin Central, Independent)
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To reiterate a point, we were talking about Mexican emigration into the United States but it must be said that much of that is the result of United States-IMF agriculture policies. It comes down to looking at the root reasons - apart from war or conflict - for people leaving.

What can we do where the framework is allowing the EU to partner with countries that have appalling human rights abuses? The Trócaire document mentions Eritrea and Sudan. It is mind-boggling.

Seán Crowe (Dublin South West, Sinn Fein)
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I would merely make the point that I am old enough to remember that refugees came to this country from the conflict in the North of Ireland. At that time, it was the largest movement of population since the Second World War. Thankfully, we have moved away from conflict in the context of the North. We have a responsibility to adopt positions that do not contribute to conflict but that are instead designed to try to assist in resolving conflicts around the globe. That is what is important. I asked a question on the direct correlation between those contributing to conflicts, particularly in the Middle East, and refugees.

Europe cannot create the problem and then step back when, as a result, people are fleeing to Europe to seek refuge or safety. Therefore, there is a responsibility on those countries that contribute directly to the conflict in the region. They have a greater responsibility than many of the countries that do not contribute to it.

Mr. Jim Clarken:

I shall make some closing comments. It is absolutely right and important to acknowledge the role of the Irish Naval Service. It is also important to acknowledge the role of Irish Aid and the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade in the work that is supported in many of the countries where these issues have arisen. Unfortunately, the issue must be considered in light of a juxtaposition between where Ireland sits as a member of the European Union and what the European Union is doing. The upcoming summit represents an important moment but it is only the beginning of something much bigger that we will have to continue to discuss and debate. We will have to bring people on side.

Interestingly, with regard to the question posed by Deputy Crowe on the position of the Irish public, he will remember that when those horrible images met us last year, the first people to respond were the Irish public. They offered their homes, hospitality, money and any supports they could. We should never underestimate the generosity and empathy of the Irish public in responding quickly, as long as we manage the matter carefully. That is where the leadership comes in. The work of the Parliament will be so important in making sure we do not allow the kind of rhetoric we are hearing elsewhere to take hold. Thus far, it has not taken hold. We have a very progressive view on these issues. It is echoed by what has been said here but we cannot allow the rhetoric to take hold and must ensure it is closed down.

This speaks to Ireland's position within the European Union. What the European Union has done is nothing short of disgraceful with regard to the arrangements it is making with Turkey and some of the countries that have been mentioned. We need to have a strong voice. I would really like to hear that echoed in the letter and communications that come from here outlining how people are aggrieved regarding the role of Ireland. We need to do more in this regard.

Certainly, we welcome the round-table engagement. The round-table forum was convened urgently last year. A serious commitment was made, which was welcomed by all of us who were there. However, as Deputy O'Brien mentioned, the numbers are nothing short of embarrassing. Let us make sure that if there are blockages somewhere, we find out what they are and determine how we can deal with them. How can Ireland contribute in a way that will effect change in this regard? Most important, what can Ireland's position in the world be? We are seen as a small country with a big voice and, if I may say so, a big heart. We need to see that reflected in how we respond to this crisis, both domestically and as part of EU bodies and global bodies such as the United Nations. Ireland can do this. We have great credibility.

I shall leave the closing words not to those of us who sit in the comfort of this room but to those who are languishing in refugee camps and who are essentially prisoners in Greece and other places. The following quotations are from a report that Oxfam produced called "Europe, Don't Let Us Down". It is very prescient for us today. A Syrian man in a camp in Epirus said:

Before we took our children and family over the sea, now we will take them over land. What other option do we have?

Wahid, a 37-year-old Afghan male in a camp in Epirus, said the following:

We feel we have overstayed our welcome in a country that is struggling to support itself and its own people. The Greek people have their own problems.

One of the stronger messages is:

During the journey, I found myself at risk. The ISIS men tried to rape me. When we got to Turkey, the Turks sent us back to the borders with Syria twice. They were shooting at us with their weapons. However, if you pay, you can get to Turkey again.

This was said by Maria, a 27-year-old Syrian woman in Lesbos. Mohammad, a 43-year-old Syrian male in Lesbos, stated:

I want to tell Europe that if Turkey was a safe country, I wouldn’t have risked the lives of my wife and children and put them in the boat to cross the sea. If [Turkey] is such a safe country, why don’t they let it into the EU?

Those are the voices of people who are dealing with this every day. We are just not doing enough. I hope the passion we have heard at this committee today and the commitment from everyone, which is much appreciated, can be amplified and brought to others to ensure that we gather momentum in Ireland on this issue.

Chairman:

I thank Mr. Clarken and his various NGO colleagues for their contributions. I also echo the words of Deputy Darragh O'Brien on the great work that is being carried out by our Naval Service. At meetings of this committee during the previous Dáil, my colleagues and I always took the opportunity to commend the work of the different Irish NGOs and their sister organisations throughout the world who are working at the coalface in difficult circumstances. They are working with the most vulnerable and marginalised people in the world.

I am surprised that the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade has not convened a round-table discussion with interested parties, including NGOs, who have such a vital role to play. They have so much knowledge from the actual places where displacement is occurring. In our letter to the Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade, we will be strongly recommending that a round-table discussion be held with NGOs at an early date, rather than on the eve of the conference.

The presentations today, and the contributions of all members, reflect the huge concern we have about vulnerable and marginalised people throughout the world. Earlier, I mentioned a figure of 65.3 million people displaced as a result of persecution and violence. We cannot repeat that figure often enough in order to create better awareness of the horrific conditions and the vulnerability of so many innocent people. That figure is approximately 15 times the population of our State, which is more than a frightening statistic. Momentum, solidarity and a global response are all badly needed with the utmost urgency.

This joint committee was only formed at the end of last week. With the full agreement of members of the select committee, I proposed that we would have this issue as the first item for discussion at the first meeting of this committee. I was determined, along with my colleagues, that we would meet before the end of July to hear from the witnesses present. This has given us an opportunity to reflect on, and convey to the Minister, the views of our own members as well as those of the NGO representatives well in advance of the summit meeting.

I thank my fellow committee members and other Oireachtas colleagues who have attended today, including MEPs, for contributing to what has been an important meeting. I thank the witnesses for their contributions and for the ongoing work of their NGOs.