Denis Naughten (Roscommon-Galway, Independent)
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We have put a figure for potential risk in the stability programme. The Deputy would rightly criticise me if I did not acknowledge the potential risk if we do not reach our targets. As he will be aware, having sat on this side of the table, if I am going to leverage the investment I require, I need to have a carrot and a stick.

If we meet bills like this in 2020 I will have far greater leverage to get the investment I require. There is absolutely no doubt that we need more money for energy efficiency. There are, however, issues outside my Estimate, such as carbon tax and the energy efficiency fund. Some good innovative projects are getting off the ground. There is no point investing in something that will not deliver. There have been several very successful pilots. We all read last week or the week before about what Electrical and Pump Services, EPS, has done in Cork, which is effectively a bike to work scheme for energy efficiency among its employees. Can that be expanded and developed on a large scale? There are many more projects, such as the warmth and well-being innovation we are now rolling out in Walkinstown and Tallaght, which has an impact on people with chronic obstructive pulmonary disease, COPD, not only improving the comfort of their homes but also potentially reducing admissions to accident and emergency departments, presentations to general practitioners and visits by public health nurses, which has a knock-on impact on the Department of Health. As I said at the beginning of this meeting, my Department is a facilitative one. We can drive the change and the benefits can be seen in other Departments, such as the Department of housing, planning and local government in respect of public lighting, the warmth and well-being programme and the Department of Health. However, we do need more money, particularly in the energy efficiency area.

There are problems and challenges, not just to get the money but in respect of the financial constraints placed on us by the European Commission. I was five days into the job when I met with Commissioner Cañete and one of the first things I raised with him was the fact that even if we do get the money we could be restricted in what we could spend, which is bizarre because if we do not spend it we will face penalties post-2020. It makes far more sense to spend that money on reducing the amount of carbon that goes into the environment and reducing energy bills for families around the country than on paying fines.