Mr. David Hall:

We may differ, but the reality is that the law states categorically that is the case. In only a handful of cases has there been a failure to get repossession orders. Over time, a repossession order will be granted. In light of the current housing crisis, somebody may be better served holding on to the €300 for a deposit in this mad rental stage we are in. Ultimately, where someone has buy-to-let properties, a family home mortgage and one or two investment properties, only the rent is being taken. Many of the banks have a formula whereby they will tell people minus what percentage of rent they will accept but there is no certainty or long-term plan for those individuals. That is the great danger.

Deputy Coppinger asked about vulture funds. I agree with her 100% on that issue. I had a face-to-face conversation with the Minister for Finance, Deputy Noonan, on bank holiday Monday in which I gave views on mortgage arrears and solutions with the Independent Alliance. We had a very robust exchange and it is very clear that the Minister falls into the "vulture lover" category. He was very clear on his love for vulture funds, on which we had a robust exchange. Some would argue there is a place for vulture funds. If someone in business is goosed and is about to lose his or her property, it is likely that a vulture fund will write off the debt but in return it will want the keys to that property. At the moment, one of them is offering €5,000 if the person gets out of the house within six weeks. That is their intent. It is very clear. They are self-confessed predators. They circulate for five years. They suck an asset dry and then move on. My big concern is that we will end up with a situation where the current vulture funds will suck what they can and sell on to a super-vulture fund. I agree with the Deputy's comments. I think the Minister, Deputy Noonan, is badly advised. I think his preference to have met - I said this to him - vulture funds versus debtor advocates over the past five years was deeply concerning. However, I will say in his defence, I met a man a fortnight ago who clearly knew the that system does not work and was exceptionally engaged for a number of days in trying to bring something about. I strongly recommend - Deputy Joan Collins referred to this - the use of mortgage-to-rent arrangements and split mortgages as part of the code of conduct. I also strongly recommend that the court should be centralised but it should also have an arm that could push through deals. As already stated, I saw a different reaction in respect of this matter. The vulture part was there but I did see a different reaction.

In regard to our own arrangement with AIB, people who are in debt either afford services themselves or, as is the process throughout Europe, the polluter pays. For 18 months. all our staff tried to deal with banks on behalf of debtors on a voluntary basis. It was impossible to deal with people likeDanny over a two-year period, taking two full weeks to get one case across the line in the absence of having staff. We were doing those people an injustice. We approached AIB and asked it to fund a number of staff who would engage on doing deals. AIB did that for the first year. It was a huge success and there were 3,500 deals made with those customers in recent years. In the past year, they paid us approximately €680,000 and we hired staff. This is done on a grant basis. We are a charity, so it is not done under service level agreements or on a contract basis.

In answer to the question and to give the committee some comfort - the same question was asked by their colleagues on the finance committee and they received a very robust response - I would safely say that since October last year we reported all of the banks, including AIB, to the Central Bank. This was supported by the Oireachtas finance committee in relation to tracker mortgage issues and we probably cost AIB €200 million because of that letter. Our issues with regard to our debtor advocacy is 100% clear and 100% solid. I know that when I go to bed tonight there are thousands of people who have been kept in their own beds with help from members of my team.

We also got €120,000 off KBC and I make no apologies for taking money from it because it should be paying for it. This goes back to Deputy Durkan's perspective regarding the morality of this. Those banks should be funding this and paying for these services. It is their obligation to fund these services, not to pursue people but to make sure the best protections are in place. I guarantee Deputy Coppinger that if she were to ask AIB whether I would be a friend or a foe, I believe she would get a very clear message. However, I respect the question and it is the right question to ask.