Jerry Buttimer (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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The purpose of the meeting is to discuss a motion referred to the joint committee by the Dáil and Seanad in respect of the Health and Social Care Professionals Act 2005 (Section 95 (3)) Variation of title: Optician) Regulations 2016. I welcome the Minister for Health, Deputy Leo Varadkar, and his officials, Ms Deirdre Walsh and Mr. Kieran Duffy, and thank them for their attendance.

I draw the attention of the witnesses to the fact that by virtue of section 17(2)(l) of the Defamation Act 2009, witnesses are protected by absolute privilege in respect of their evidence to this committee. However, if they are directed by the committee to cease giving evidence in relation to a particular matter and they continue to do so, they are entitled thereafter only to a qualified privilege in respect of their evidence. Witnesses are directed that only evidence connected with the subject matter of these proceedings is to be given and are asked to respect the parliamentary practice to the effect that, where possible, they should not criticise or make charges against any person, persons or entity by name or in such a way as to make him, her or it identifiable.

Members are reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice to the effect that they should not comment on, criticise or make charges against a person outside the House or an official either by name or in such a way as to make him or her identifiable.

I invite the Minister to make an opening statement.

Leo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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The joint committee is being asked to consider motions that both Houses of the Oireachtas approve the draft regulations to protect the title of "optician" by confining its use to registrants of the register of optometrists. These regulations are consequential to the transfer of the regulation of the professions of optometrists and dispensing opticians from the Opticians Act 1956 to the Health and Social Care Professionals Act 2005 on 31 October last. On that date, the Opticians Board, established under the 1956 Act, was dissolved and its registrants were transferred to the relevant registers established and maintained by the Optical Registration Board under the 2005 Act.

The purpose of these regulations is to prevent non-registrants of the register of optometrists from operating under the title of "optician". The protected title of "dispensing optician" will still be used by members of the profession of dispensing optician. The motions propose that Dáil Éireann and Seanad Éireann approve the following Regulations in draft:

Health and Social Care Professionals Act 2005 (Section 95(3)) (Variation of title: Optician) Regulations 2016, copies of which have been laid in draft form before Dáil Éireann and Seanad Éireann on 18 January 2016.

Protection of title is a core function of the Health and Social Care Professionals Council. It is vital that when people access the health services that there is no ambiguity regarding the profession and the competence of the health service provider they are attending. The system of statutory regulation of the professions designated under the Health and Social Care Professionals Act 2005 comprises registration boards for the professions, a committee structure to deal with disciplinary matters and a Health and Social Care Professionals Council with overall responsibility for the regulatory system. These bodies are collectively known as CORU and are responsible for protecting the public by regulating the 14 professions currently designated under the Act.

Regulation under the Act is primarily by way of the statutory protection of professional titles by confining their use solely to persons granted registration. The Act provides that only registrants of a registration board who are subject to the Act's regulatory regime are entitled to use the relevant protected title. As matters currently stand, the titles of "optometrist" and "dispensing optician" are specified titles under the 2005 Act and are, therefore, protected for the sole use of registrants of their respective professions. However, it is my view that the title of "optician" needs to be prescribed as a variant of the title of "optometrist" to ensure the use of this title is confined to registrants. This will ensure greater public safety when it comes to protecting the significant numbers of people who use these services.

I formally consulted the Optical Registration Board, its precursor, the Opticians Board, and the various professional bodies regarding this proposal. The consensus is that this title should be protected and I would like to move forward and make this regulation as soon as possible. The Act provides that such regulations may be made only if a draft of the proposed regulation has been laid before the Houses of the Oireachtas and a resolution approving the draft has been passed by each House. I hope the Houses are in agreement with me on the matter and they will approve the draft regulations.

Billy Kelleher (Cork North Central, Fianna Fail)
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As the Minister has provided a precise clarification as to the reasons the motion has been brought before the joint committee, I have no difficulty with the proposal.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Accepting that we have provided for the titles of "optometrist" and "dispensing optician" and in order to get a better sense of the issue, when the Minister equates the title of "optometrist" and the title of "optician", it suggests that there is some difference between the title of "dispensing optician" and the title of "optician". I am not fully acquainted with this issue. The Minister makes a link between optician and optometrist rather than dispensing optician. I ask him to explain what the difference is, if any, in this regard. Has there been a catalyst for this proposal? Have there been instances of concern or have people been found to have been acting in a professional manner without the required qualifications such that it has given rise to the proposed action before us?

Leo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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Essentially, what this proposal does is create clarity as to what the different professions do. The dispensing optician is the person who dispenses a person's glasses, whereas an optician, which is a variant of the term "optometrist", is the person who carries out eye examinations and produces prescriptions, which use figures such as -1.00 or -4.50 to indicate whether dioptres of nearsightedness. We are not aware of any specific patient safety issues. The purpose of the regulations is address an issue that could potentially arise if people were to avoid registering and were to use the title of "optician" and start prescribing or carrying out eye examinations. It clears up a technicality.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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I have no issue with the proposition and I am fully supportive. I thank the Minister for trying to help me understand the difference.

Leo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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It is very confusing.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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I will muddle on for another while.

Leo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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We will try not to talk about ophthalmologists and ophthalmic opticians while we are at it as well.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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One does have to go to these people from time to time.

Mary Mitchell O'Connor (Dún Laoghaire, Fine Gael)
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I accept the Minister's report. But if the Minister returns as Minister for Health or whoever will be the next Minister for Health-----

Jerry Buttimer (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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We are running out of time.

Mary Mitchell O'Connor (Dún Laoghaire, Fine Gael)
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Just one second. I have issues with audiologists and people who fit hearing aids. Hearing aids-----

Jerry Buttimer (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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We are nearly at the motion now.

Mary Mitchell O'Connor (Dún Laoghaire, Fine Gael)
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I just want to make this quick point. Hearing aids are being advertised in newspapers from €2,000 up to €4,000 and it seems to me that anyone can sell or fit hearing aids. People are shelling out money, especially older people who are on pensions and have difficulties. I ask the Minister to look at this. Between audiologists and whoever else, there seem to be a lot of people who are only selling hearing aids.

Leo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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I think the Deputy is right. Up to recently, the only professions that were in any way regulated were doctors and nurses, and now we are working our way down through other professions. One area that we have committed to regulate, which will be very complicated, is that of counsellors and psychotherapists, but in the period of the next Government we will be looking at other professions, and one of them will be audiologists.

Mary Mitchell O'Connor (Dún Laoghaire, Fine Gael)
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And will you be the Minister for Health?

Leo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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Will I be a Deputy? I do not know. I am at the mercy of the public, just as the Deputy is.

Jerry Buttimer (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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You are like a sixth-year doing the leaving certificate on your last day in school, Deputy Mitchell O'Connor.

Mary Mitchell O'Connor (Dún Laoghaire, Fine Gael)
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No, I am not. I am very focused on this issue and I have brought it up a number of times at this committee.

Jerry Buttimer (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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To be fair, Deputy Mitchell O'Connor, you did bring up the issue-----

Mary Mitchell O'Connor (Dún Laoghaire, Fine Gael)
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I am sorry, but I have one last thing to say on the topic of opticians and optometrists. We had a group at the committee wanting the National Vision Coalition to be recognised in the next Dáil term, and I ask the Minister to see to that. At the moment, they are a wide spread of different people. They have been to the House and I think the Minister has met them.

Leo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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To be honest, I do not think any Department confers recognition on bodies. It is not that we say, "We recognise this group and we do not recognise that group."

Mary Mitchell O'Connor (Dún Laoghaire, Fine Gael)
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They are a collection of different groups who wish to come together because they are all involved with eyesight, the protection of eyesight and vision.

Leo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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They can do that. They do not need Government approval to do so.

Mary Mitchell O'Connor (Dún Laoghaire, Fine Gael)
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I think they do.

Jerry Buttimer (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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Maybe if the Minister is in the next Cabinet he can push that as well so-----

Mary Mitchell O'Connor (Dún Laoghaire, Fine Gael)
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We had them here at the committee and the Chairman was pushing the matter as well. I believe the group wrote to the Minister about it.

Jerry Buttimer (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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The Joint Committee on Health and Children has now completed its consideration of the motion. In accordance with the Orders of Referral and Standing Orders, a message to that effect will be sent to the Dáil and Seanad.

I thank the Minister for his participation this morning, and I thank Ms Walsh and Ms Duffy for being here. I wish to extend my personal thanks to the Minister and his officials for their courtesy to us as a committee, and also to the previous Minister for Health, Deputy Reilly, over the past five years. We have always had a very good relationship with the Department and with the Minister, so I thank him and his officials for their work with us in the past five years.

Leo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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I thank the members of the committee, the Chairman, and the staff of the committee for all the work done in the last couple of years. I know some of the hearings have been robust - as they should be - but, particularly when it came to legislation, the committee fulfilled its legislative role very well in terms of both scrutinising and enhancing legislation. I hope the various constituents of the committee members recognise that at the doors in the next little while.