Marie Louise O'Donnell (Independent)
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I know. We do not want a bust-up conversation between Dr. Foley and myself because we could have that any time.

It is not hard to measure learning. It will depend on the subject and the area, such as the humanities versus the sciences, and there are different ways of assessing many things. I disagree with Dr. Foley. It is another cop-out. It is another lowering of standards, because we will not articulate what we want to see. It is a bit of this, that and the other and a bit of nothing.

Some studies say not to do this, some say not to assess that, and some say "Oh no, that is not the way to do it". We end up back in the Spar shop not knowing what it is at all, when in actual fact we do know what it is.