Frank Feighan (Roscommon-South Leitrim, Fine Gael)
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On behalf of the committee I am pleased to invite the Minister of State at the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade, Deputy Sean Sherlock, to brief us on the current developments in Northern Ireland with specific reference to the Fresh Start agreement. Before I invite him to make his presentation I advise the witnesses that they are protected by absolute privilege in respect of utterances at this committee. However, if they are directed by the committee to cease making remarks on a particular matter and continue to do so they are entitled thereafter only to a qualified privilege in respect of their remarks. They are directed that only evidence connected with the subject matter of this meeting is to be given and they are asked to respect the parliamentary practice to the effect that, where possible, they should not criticise or make charges against a member of either House of the Oireachtas, a person outside the Houses, or an official by name or in such a way as to make him or her identifiable. I invite the Minister of State to make his opening statement.

Seán Sherlock (Cork East, Labour)
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I thank the Chairman and members of the committee. I welcome the opportunity to address the committee on the current situation in Northern Ireland and the agreement reached following ten weeks of intensive talks.

As members of the committee will know, these talks were brought to a successful conclusion on 17 November 2015 with negotiations resulting in “A Fresh Start – the Stormont House Agreement and Implementation Plan”. The agreement is split into six sections covering ending paramilitarism and tackling organised crime, welfare reform and financial matters including financial supports from the British and Irish Governments and implementation of other aspects of the Stormont House agreement. Regrettably, it was not possible within the timescale of these talks to address all aspects of the Stormont House agreement and this is something I will return to in more detail later.

The Fresh Start agreement is not a final destination but represents a significant step forward towards normalising politics and society. Considering where we began, in terms of the threat to the very existence of the devolved power sharing institutions, the agreement’s fundamental achievement is the stability it has brought to the institutions so that they are now in a position to deliver for the people of Northern Ireland.

With the strong support of the Taoiseach and the Tánaiste, the Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade, Deputy Charles Flanagan, and I, together with the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland worked with the five main political parties in Northern Ireland to ensure the threat of collapse was overcome and the political impasse was resolved. All parties around the table worked tirelessly to ensure Northern Ireland did not fall off the precipice and that all the good work that has been achieved in the North in the past 17 years was not undone. While focusing to some extent on the removal of obstacles, the Fresh Start agreement has ultimately delivered an outcome that not only unblocks progress, but provides a credible roadmap for implementing many aspects of the Stormont House agreement and tackling the continuing impact of paramilitarism.

The continuing impact and legacy of paramilitarism was a key issue going into these talks and one that was threatening to destabilise the devolved power sharing institutions. The Fresh Start agreement sets out a plan to end the scourge of paramilitarism and associated criminality. Critically, all parties have agreed to sign up to a set of principles which commit them to achieving a society free of paramilitarism and challenge paramilitary attempts to control communities.

In practical terms what this means is the execution of a strategy and action plan to be put in place by the Northern Ireland Executive by June 2016, the aim of which will be to work to disband paramilitary groups and end their destabilising influence on communities. Together with the British Government, the Irish Government will establish a four-member international body that will monitor and report on the progress made towards ending paramilitary activity in Northern Ireland, taking account of the strategy to be agreed and implemented by the Executive. We will also work to enhance and improve cross-Border law enforcement and co-operation, particularly when it comes to tackling organised crime. This will be achieved through a joint agency task force that will be established to tackle these serious issues that are a threat to our communities. The Minister for Justice and Equality, Deputy Frances Fitzgerald, will lead on this and will meet her Northern counterpart and the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland next Monday to begin this process and to discuss measures to enhance further cross-Border co-operation.

Important progress was also made in the areas of budgetary reforms and financial assistance. The Fresh Start agreement represents a genuinely exciting opportunity.

It unblocks several important financial and institutional reforms which are so important for economic stability and will enable the Northern Ireland Executive to deliver more effectively for all the people of Northern Ireland. It will also help the Government and the Executive to co-operate further with the aim of unlocking the full potential of our island economy. The Government has made important financial commitments under the agreement. Contacts with the Northern Ireland Executive are under way with regard to the implementation of these, including the provision of £75 million towards the completion of the first part of the A5 motorway. This project will help unlock the full potential of the north west of the island.

The Government has committed a further €2.5 million, which will be matched by the Northern Ireland Executive, for investment in a north-west regional development fund that includes County Donegal. We will continue to explore the development of further cross-Border greenways and blueway leisure routes, including the Ulster Canal, and remain committed to the concept of the Narrow Water bridge which has the potential to provide jobs and a significant boost to tourism in the surrounding area.

The Fresh Start agreement reaffirms the Government’s support for the EU PEACE and INTERREG programmes and its commitment to working closely with the Northern Ireland Executive to fully realise the programmes' potential. Almost €500 million will be available from EU sources during the period 2016 to 2021. It also recalls the existing commitments set out in the Government’s capital plan regarding investment in key transport corridors, including the €18 million in funds committed to the ongoing upgrade of the Dublin-Belfast rail corridor and cross-Border co-operation in the areas of flood relief and the energy and communications sectors. The Government will continue to explore capital investment in health projects and services which benefit the Border region. These projects and initiatives have the potential to bring real day-to-day benefits to the people on both sides of the Border. We have committed a total of €110 million under this agreement, much of which will go towards realising the full economic potential of the north west.

As the Minister of State with responsibility for North-South co-operation, I am especially pleased with the resumption of meetings of the North-South Ministerial Council following re-engagement by DUP Ministers. The North-South Ministerial Council, NSMC, plenary meeting, hosted by the First Minister and Deputy First Minister in Armagh, was held last Friday, 11 December. The Taoiseach, the Tánaiste and the Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade, Deputy Charles Flanagan, attended the plenary where discussions centred on the recent A Fresh Start agreement and the work to be undertaken by officials to review North-South infrastructure projects. The council also welcomed the commitment in A Fresh Start to tackle paramilitarism, criminality and organised crime and to bring to justice those involved in them.

I am glad to report that five North-South Ministerial sectoral meetings have taken place since the re-engagement of the DUP Ministers. It is important that momentum on North-South co-operation is picked up again both within the NSMC and outside of the formal structures, with particular focus on the economy, employment and business development.

It was not possible, unfortunately, to address all aspects of the implementation of the Stormont House Agreement in the Fresh Start agreement. It is regrettable that A Fresh Start did not address the implementation of the provisions of the Stormont House Agreement dealing with the legacy of the past. I share the disappointment felt by the victims of the Troubles, the survivors and their families. On several occasions I acted as co-chair to the round-table discussions on legacy issues. We were very close to agreement on a range of issues, including the establishment and operation of the historical investigations unit and the independent commission for information retrieval, the setting up of the implementation and reconciliation group on a statutory footing and the detail and operation of the oral history archive. A crucial issue upon which agreement could not be found was in striking the right balance between the disclosure needs of families and the national security requirements sought by the British Government. I stress again, and as the Minister, Deputy Flanagan, has said previously, it was not the Irish Government which pressed for an agreement that left aside the legacy of the past. However, when it became clear that the choice was between having an agreement which uncoupled the past or having no agreement at all, the Government agreed most reluctantly to have a less than comprehensive deal which would at least ensure devolved institutions would be protected and placed on a stable and sustainable footing.

It is important now to find a way forward that banks the good progress achieved during the talks and secures a solution to outstanding matters. To this end, contacts continue with the British Government, the five main political parties in Northern Ireland and, most important, with various victims’ groups. The Minister, Deputy Flanagan, met Northern Ireland’s Commissioner for Victims and Survivors on 26 November to discuss the concerns of victims and possible ways to take the issue forward in a way that satisfies these concerns. The Minister, Deputy Flanagan, also met the Northern Ireland Minister for Justice, David Ford, MLA, last Friday, 11 December 2015, and legacy was a key agenda item. Legacy will also be key in the upcoming meeting of the Minister, Deputy Flanagan, with the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland before Christmas.

The provisions of the Stormont House Agreement for dealing with the legacy of the past offer the best possible way of bringing whatever healing is possible to those affected by the Troubles. To achieve this, it is vital these new institutions have the trust and confidence of survivors and their families. Their needs will remain central to the Government’s work in this area.

I reiterate the Government’s commitment to working with the Northern Ireland Executive and the British Government to ensure A Fresh Start is implemented in full. While work will continue on the vital issue of dealing with the legacy of the past, this agreement is a further step forward in Northern Ireland’s journey towards long-term peace and stability. Through the implementation of the agreement, there is an opportunity to demonstrate that power-sharing devolution can provide good government and can offer hope for future generations. I thank committee members for their time.

Frank Feighan (Roscommon-South Leitrim, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Minister of State, Deputy Sherlock, for his time chairing these talks upon which I am sure he spent hours, days, weeks and months. I know from my contacts in Northern Ireland across the island that people were thankful for the Minister of State's presence at the talks along with his officials. I also thank the Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade, Deputy Charles Flanagan, and the other parties involved for the work they have done on the Fresh Start agreement.

Will the Minister of State clarify how the petition of concern mechanism will be reformed under A Fresh Start? The Government was disappointed that no final agreement was reached on dealing with legacy issues. The committee was privileged to hear some powerful testimonies from Northern Ireland victims and relatives representative groups, many of whom had waited years for justice, disclosure and the truth. In the context of legacy issues, will the Minister of State indicate what happens for these groups now?

Seán Sherlock (Cork East, Labour)
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I will come back to the Chairman on the petitions of concern, but as I have said, it was not the Irish Government which pressed for an agreement that completely left aside the legacy of the past. The Government was faced with a choice between having an agreement which uncoupled the past or having no agreement at all. With regard to dealing with the legacy, there is a very firm commitment by the Government to ensure we continue the engagement on legacy issues. It will be vital to continue the engagement with victims' groups and their families and high-level political engagement will continue between the Minister, Deputy Flanagan, and the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland. That engagement will continue apace next week. One could say there is a period of reflection happening now.

However, it is important that we acknowledge that a lot of energy was put into dealing with legacy issues during the ten week process. It would not serve the best interests of both communities, north, south, east and west, not to continue the work. It is vital that we continue it but we must find a mechanism and a means that will allow us to do so.

The Executive agreed a protocol on the use of the petition of concern that seeks to limit its use. It is voluntary in nature so we will have to see how it will operate within the Assembly. There is perhaps a school of thought that the petition of concern power has been used at sensitive times. The protocol is now in place, however, and the Irish Government hopes the procedure will be used with a positive mindset, if that makes sense.

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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I welcome the Minister of State and add my voice to the compliments paid to him and the Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade, Deputy Flanagan, as well as all the parties involved in the talks. The Minister of State mentioned he was close to agreement on a number of issues, in particular the issues surrounding the historical investigation unit and the Independent Commission on Information Retrieval. Will the Minister of State provide us with more information in that regard?

The Minister of State spoke about many of the infrastructure issues we often raise during these meetings, including the A5 motorway, the Narrow Water bridge, the Ulster Canal and the Dublin-Belfast rail corridor. A lot of figures were mentioned in the Minister of State's comprehensive statement. The figure of €75 million was mentioned in respect of the A5 motorway and the figure of €110 million was mentioned when speaking about releasing the economic potential of the region.

Given our recent weather, was the Minister of State referring to ongoing flood relief or something more specific since the recent heavy rains in, in particular, the north west and the west? The Minister of State's county of Cork has also been very much affected. There is room for co-operation in terms of what we can do on flood relief.

In view of the White Paper on energy, is there any information available in terms of cross-Border initiatives?

I apologise that I have to leave as I will be chairing proceedings in the Dáil at 12 noon.

Joe O'Reilly (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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I join the Chairman and the Leas-Cheann Comhairle in congratulating the Minister of State, Deputy Sherlock, and his team on their excellent work in Northern Ireland. I know from the remarks of our Chairman and other anecdotal information that he, in particular, put in a strong personal commitment and I thank him for it. It is appreciated. I also ask the Minister of State to convey our congratulations to the Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade, Deputy Flanagan.

Will the Minister of State elaborate on how the joint agency task force on crime will operate and who will be involved in it? Specifically, we have a real problem with fuel laundering, contraband cigarettes and a number of other illegal activities in the Border counties. There is a great ambition on the part of legitimate traders and others to deal with this issue. The Minister of State will appreciate that it is difficult enough for legitimate people to do business without having to compete with criminal gangs. It will be interesting to see how the agency will work.

There is concern that the policing of specific cross-Border crime such as fuel laundering and smuggling would displace ordinary, existing policing. Will the Minister of State assure us in that regard? There is a continuous concern that police would be drawn exclusively to Border areas and that areas such as Monaghan or, in particular, Cavan, given it is further away, would suffer as a consequence.

To follow up on the Leas-Cheann Comhairle's remarks about flood relief, we can thank God that part of Ireland was spared on this occasion. However, what happened in the Minister of State's part of the country is testimony to what can happen. It would be interesting if the Minister of State could elaborate on the matter. Are new moneys available and what will happen?

I am happy about the Ulster Canal initiative.

I notice in the Minister of State's document many references to the "north west", meaning Donegal. Cavan-Monaghan is not referenced and this region is as much in need of investment. I know it sounds parochial but we are here to do a little bit of parochial work as well. It will benefit from the peace initiatives and INTERREG and so forth but, at the same time, there is significant emphasis on the north west, meaning Donegal. We have no objection to the development of Donegal, which is needed, but all the areas along the Border corridor have suffered from the affects of the conflict in Northern Ireland. The entire area suffered in a litany of ways that the Minister of State knows only too well.

I again compliment the Minister of State on his personal work and commitment.

Frank Feighan (Roscommon-South Leitrim, Fine Gael)
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Before I call Deputy Crowe, I remind members, nicely and quietly, to switch off their telephones and further remind them, when they are leaving to ensure they turn them on again.

Brendan Smith (Cavan-Monaghan, Fianna Fail)
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Would we not have peace if they were turned off for the day? It is the season of peace and goodwill.

Seán Crowe (Dublin South West, Sinn Fein)
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The Chairman is being very positive today.

As part of this discussion, we should reflect on how this latest round of talks came about. We know there are difficulties within the political institutions and two individuals were killed in Belfast by criminals, which led to a serious crisis in the process. There were also difficulties concerning cuts in services for the most vulnerable in society, including those on welfare.

We approached the talks on the basis that we wanted to get the political institutions up working again. We should note that this was successful. A workable budget for the Assembly to protect the most vulnerable was also necessary and additional moneys, £500 million in sterling, are being made available for the Executive over the next four years. The spending of £584 million will impact those hit the most by cuts to benefits and tax credits. People will argue it is not enough and that the institutions should have been pulled down but that was a political call to be made. There was a positive response to tackling criminality and the continuing existence of armed gangs and we will see this being rolled out in the next couple of days and weeks.

The British and Irish Governments lived up to their commitment on dealing with the past. First we had the Stormont House agreement, which dealt with this area. The frustrating thing is that meetings are held into the late hours and so on and agreement is reached and then someone decides to pull back from it. This is a difficulty. Does the Minister of State agree that this type of approach, with one party to an agreement deciding to pull out, cannot continue? In this instance, I argue it was the British Government that pulled back.

I want to focus on the legacy issues. I facilitate an all-party committee that deals with this area by chairing it.

We had a meeting with some of the groups only last week. One of the concerns related to the question of legacy. When will the talks resume? I facilitated a meeting between the relatives and members and Martin McGuinness last week. He made it clear that he is available up to the Christmas period - it is not the first time the discussions lasted up to Christmas on this question. What is the view of the Government?

The British Government is spinning that this is a matter for the parties. My understanding is that there was an agreement on many of legacy issues with the parties at the discussions, but the British Government view on the idea of national security was a game changer and amounted to introducing something new.

I note the United Nations rapporteur has come out strongly on the question. He has said the legacy of the past continues to bring challenges and division. He said the matter requires urgent and decisive attention. He also said, "Despite some significant initiatives, especially in the area of truth, justice, and institutional reforms, these have not been comprehensive and are characterised by fragmentation". He asked why 40 year old security concerns should impact on the consideration of the rights of victims today. We should ask the same question. That is the main message from people coming from this situation.

We put forward two options to try to break the impasse. I am not asking the Minister of State to endorse these views but does he believe the two options represent potential for movement? One relates to the national security veto engaged by the British Government. We have suggested that in respect of the commission of a criminal offence relating to the death or attempted murder of someone, information should be disclosed to the maximum extent that does not endanger life. I do not see how anyone could disagree with that. Another suggestion is that information should be disclosed to the maximum extent that does not damage the effectiveness of current methodology for prevention of certain acts. We proposed two options. First, the British Government should make clear the need for full disclosure to the historical inquiries unit such that the director would have full discretion in respect of onward disclosure. Second, in the case of onward disclosure, the British Government would be subject to an appeal panel. The suggestion was for a panel made up of an Irish, British and international judge. Again, the rapporteur suggested there would be difficulties if parties saw that one side of the conflict had a veto over the process. He suggested that using national security as a blanket term ends up obscuring the reality. In particular, the rapporteur stated, "national and international obligations, can only be served within the limits of the law, and allowing for adequate means of comprehensive redress in cases of breaches of obligations."

There are a number of areas where, I am confident, we can move forward on this issue. People have talked about stumbling blocks and said that it could not be done. However, we have moved forward. We have the institutions up-and-running. Again, people said that could not be done. The affected families have concern about the next steps and when the serious talks will resume. Some people are saying that because of the potential elections in the South this may be a stumbling block. Does the Minister of State view it that way? Others believe the potential elections in May in the North will have an effect. Does the Minister of State see a window in the run-up to this?

Seán Sherlock (Cork East, Labour)
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I will endeavour to be as comprehensive as possible. If I miss out on something, I hope members will come back in. Deputy Kitt made a point on legacy. We took the view that we were close to agreement on the operation of the historical investigations unit, including on the provision of guaranteeing its independence and the point that it would be compliant with the Patten principles on policing and justice.

Let us go back to what I said originally and factor in Deputy Crowe's point on where the agreement fell. We expressed our preference during the talks for a process that would cover the range of legacy issues on which agreement was possible. The view was that there should be an approach to inculcate a process or speak to the issue of legacy in such a way as not to exclude it from an agreement. The idea was to ensure that we would have a pathway for continuation. In the absence of agreement on the issue we are now in a situation where we stand ready to engage on legacy issues again. The two Governments are seeking a way forward. It is not possible to put an exact timeline on it. We are willing to engage. However, in the case of legacy issues people have to be willing to engage on the basis that there is the prospect of success. I take the point made about what one might term the anachronistic iterative processes that have gone on since 1998 and whether it is possible to provide a way for innovation to allow us to overcome these issues outside of a hothouse arrangement or an intensive process that goes on for ten weeks, but one in which there is no guarantee of success on certain aspects that need to be dealt with for the benefit of this island and our neighbours to the east. There is scope now for some new thinking at political level in terms of how we engage on an ongoing basis rather than within the confined process. We do not always get the outcomes we desire.

Deputy O'Reilly made a particular point. Section A of the agreement contains a specific reference to the joint agency task force. The Deputy asked how that is comprised. It will be led by senior officers from Police Service of Northern Ireland, the Garda Síochána, the Revenue Commissioners and HM Revenue and Customs. There is a specific reference to the effect that the task force will report on its work in accordance with the statutory arrangements in place for the law enforcement agencies. In turn, the task force will have a strategic oversight group and an operations co-ordination unit. That much is well laid out.

Deputy O'Reilly also asked about economic activity and supports within the Border region. He made reference to the PEACE and INTERREG programmes. I contend that the Government has done a great deal of work with our neighbours to ensure funding will be provided where there is framework for it. A great deal of work was done to get us to the point where we actually agreed on PEACE, for example. That will translate back into the Border region in respect of economic activity. I take the point made on the north-west gateway initiative. The A5 proposal is the key. Deputy Kitt asked about the €110 million allocation. That is the entirety of the package from an Irish Government perspective, so it is inclusive of the north-west gateway initiative. It also includes the other commitments on the A5. No one would disagree with the fact that the north west is a region requiring more in respect of political commitment.

There are good initiatives at play there at present, particularly with the two councils on either side of the Border. It is for us at governmental level to try to support that in every way we can. Increasing economic activity is one of the key areas.

Deputy's Crowe spoke about legacy, national security and the approach taken. I think I have answered the question about the approach. If I was to speak personally, I would say that perhaps the approach needs to be looked at again. I do not mean to be ageist, but I am, perhaps, part of a particular generation of politicians. We can name any number of agreements and negotiations, such as the 1998 process or the Weston Park negotiations; it is an iterative process. This generation is as much obliged as the previous one to continue the work on legacy issues, however. We do not want to let another generation pass without ensuring that justice can be found for the victims and their families. That is a fundamental principle which underpins any Irish Government policy on the North, no matter who is in the driving seat. While we stand ready to re-engage on legacy issues, the timing of that engagement remains to be determined. We look forward to co-operating.

In my opening remarks I said that the Minister, Deputy Flanagan, will be meeting with the Secretary of State, Ms Villiers, next week. Part of that conversation will be about continuing to maintain momentum on the need to deal with the issues which Deputy Crowe has articulated in respect of national security and disclosure.

I do not think today is the day to open up parts of the negotiations again. We felt that we had made some progress in creating the institutions that were necessary to deal with legacy, such as the implementation and reconciliation group, IRG and the historical investigations unit, HIU. However, during the process of negotiation there was agreement all around that we need to get to a point at which there is at least agreement on the need to restore confidence in the institutions. There was consensus that we would revisit the other aspects and continue to devote energy to them.

People have expressed their good wishes and congratulations but I have to say that congratulations are due to Mr. Garvin and Ms McGrath beside me, and to a great team of officials from both the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade and the Department of Justice and Equality. Incidentally, that Department will take the lead in the interaction on the task force issues. It is a team approach and the work will continue between sets of negotiations. I reassure the committee that it is a constant process.

There was a specific question about flood relief and energy. Those issues are dealt with in the sectoral elements and in the ongoing work at ministerial level. As I said at the outset, we have seen a new energy about ensuring that the agenda on ongoing North-South issues, such as flooding and flood relief, is dealt with through sectoral engagements.

Brendan Smith (Cavan-Monaghan, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Minister of State for his presentation. We had the opportunity to discuss some of these issues in the Dáil earlier today, when I asked about the fresh start agreement during Priority Questions. Timing is of the utmost importance. There is now a very small window of opportunity to make progress as we are into the electoral cycles both North and South in the new year. As we all know, the time coming up to elections is not a great time to make progress on sensitive issues with political resonance. I have said it in the Dáil on numerous occasions since this agreement was finalised.

It is a most disappointing situation for victims, victims' families and survivors. Dealing with the legacy of the past goes back to proposals and measures from Eames-Bradley, the Haass talks and the Stormont House Agreement. Unfortunately, the Fresh Start agreement did not enable the provisions proposed in the Stormont House Agreement to be implemented. The British Government obviously exercised a veto, citing national security issues. In dealing with issues that go back 40 years and more, it is reprehensible that we are leaving families to wait again, when they need to get the truth and receive some measure of support.

The Minister, Deputy Flanagan, and the Minister of State, Deputy Sherlock have both echoed the viewpoints I had stated in the Dáil on this issue. There needs to be an urgency attached to trying to achieve progress. After December or January we are most likely into election campaigns. These issues are of the utmost importance. Every day that goes by, for the victims, their families and the survivors, everybody is getting older. The longer this process goes on the more difficult it will be to achieve any meaningful response for those who have suffered so much for so long - some for decades.

I was very taken with the comments of Sandra Peake of the WAVE Trauma Centre, and by statements from other good advocacy groups working on behalf of victims, survivors and victims' families over the years. They expressed serious disappointment that the measures were not put in place in this agreement. In response to a question I put this morning, the Minister, Deputy Flanagan, agreed that he would meet some of the representative groups such as Justice for the Forgotten. I sincerely hope that this engagement can take place at an early date.

Some of us here participate in an informal all-party group dealing with the Dublin-Monaghan bombings in particular, as well as other tragedies. There is so much evidence regarding who was responsible for the Dublin-Monaghan bombings, and for the bombing in Belturbet in December 1972. We know of the Glenanne gang and that it was supported by British State forces. We have to confront all of these issues to reach the truth. It is long past time. In most debates that we have in these Houses, when mentioning the victims and the tragedies that occurred throughout this island, we also want to include the families of the disappeared, who have suffered so much. A number of bodies still remain to be recovered in that respect.

I appeal to the Minister of State, the Government, the British Government and the five executive parties in the Northern Executive. Time is not on anybody's side to make meaningful progress on addressing in some way the terrible suffering which so many have endured for so long. We know very well that no matter how adequate a programme of support is put in place, it will never be sufficient given the losses incurred by those families. Nonetheless, we have to try to put in place a proper support mechanism for those individuals and families and for society in general.

The Minister of State and Deputy Joe O'Reilly both mentioned the infrastructural deficit in the north east and the need to improve links between North and South, including via improvements to national secondary and regional roads. Having adequate infrastructure in place is important for traversing the Border and building North-South trade. A project in the north east that we have spoken about on many occasions at this committee is the Narrow Water Bridge project. The investment involved is relatively small in the general scheme of things and it is mentioned in the agreement. If there was some momentum there, it would show people that progress is being made on an important infrastructural project. As I said, the cost is small in the overall context of public spending but it would mean a great deal to the communities in counties Louth and Down and have a significant impact on the all-island tourism product.

I conclude by referring to the issue of criminality. As the Minister of State knows, I brought forward legislation in the Dáil to establish a cross-Border agency to deal with crime. Unfortunately, the Government voted down those measures, which were supported by our colleagues in opposition. While I welcome the provision in the Fresh Start agreement for the establishment of a task force on criminality, it does not go far enough. We know the damage crime does to individuals, communities and the environment both North and South, not to mention the loss of revenue to government through illegal trading. We need a dedicated agency comprising members of An Garda Síochána, the PSNI, the Revenue Commissioners and their counterparts in Northern Ireland, the Environmental Protection Agency and the Northern Ireland Environment Agency, and all relevant Departments. We all know that agencies and Departments all too often follow their own particular agenda and work within their own particular silos. A task force will not facilitate the level of inter-agency co-operation that is needed. I ask the Government to give further consideration to the establishment of a cross-Border agency to deal with this particular issue. The legislation we prepared was based on proposals by the committee of the British-Irish Parliamentary Assembly in this respect. I hope the model we have put forward will be used to deal with this particular issue.

I compliment the Minister of State, Deputy Sherlock, and the Minister, Deputy Flanagan, as well as Dr. Alasdair McDonnell, MP, of the SDLP, who is here with us today, and the other parties in the Executive, all of whom worked extremely hard to reach agreement on these very important matters. Time is of the essence in resolving issues to do with the legacy of the past and, unfortunately, it is very much against us.

Jim D'Arcy (Fine Gael)
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I congratulate the Minister of State, Deputy Sherlock, and the Minister, Deputy Flanagan, on the great work they did in helping to secure a new deal for Northern Ireland. I hope the proposed cross-Border task force on crime will be set up as soon as possible. The Garda Commissioner and the Chief Constable of the PSNI will be taking the lead in that regard but I urge politicians to do what they can to make sure it happens soon. A neighbour of mine, Tony Golden, was cruelly murdered in October and another garda friend of mine, Adrian Donohoe, was murdered a couple of years ago. We also had the case of the Dundalk taxi driver who was murdered in the course of his work. We talk about diesel laundering and cigarette smuggling because they are the obvious examples of nefarious criminal activity. However, there is also extortion and racketeering and we have gangs masquerading as republicans and loyalists involved at a deep level in the drugs trade North and South. These are the activities that need to be tackled and ordinary policing will not do it. We need a multi-agency approach. I hope the proposals are not left to gather dust for a year or two years. The task force should be established without delay.

The Narrow Water Bridge project is an issue I have raised with the First Minister, Deputy First Minister and the Taoiseach. The last communiqué from the North-South Ministerial Council referred to that body's support for the concept of the project. The Minister of State indicated today that the Government remains committed to it. However, any commitment is empty unless it is backed up with the resources necessary to implement it. Given that PEACE and INTERREG moneys can no longer be used for tourism projects, we need to consider whether the Narrow Water Bridge should be redesignated as a tourism and transport project. Another option might be to avail of European funding for port connectivity projects in a scenario where the bridge could be used to connect Greenore and Warrenpoint ports. In any event, the Narrow Water Bridge is every bit as important as the Dunkettle roundabout. Perhaps some people in the Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport do not share that view but they do not live along the Border. I am not inferring anything about the Minister of State here.

Seán Sherlock (Cork East, Labour)
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Has the Senator ever driven through the Dunkettle roundabout?

Jim D'Arcy (Fine Gael)
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I have indeed. I have also driven through Border checkpoints where I have been detained for hours and had my car taken apart. As well as seeking to solve the legacy issues, we need to solve the day-to-day issues between communities North and South, which are equally important. There are the best of people of both traditions around Rostrevor and Warrenpoint and they are very keen on advancing the Narrow Water Bridge project not only for the connectivity it will give, but also for the healing it may provide. The road goes both ways. Moreover, as Deputy Smith pointed out, it will not cost a fortune. We were very nearly there on the last occasion but, in the end, the funding was not available. There are only two or three North-South projects under discussion, including the A5 project, the Narrow Water Bridge project and the canals development proposals. We need to get one or two of them across the line.

On the legacy issues, I see no call for pessimism. They are on the agenda more strongly and prominently than ever before, both publicly and privately. There is an Irish word, fadhb, which means "problem" and also refers to a knot in an oak tree.

If we can undo the knot, we will be on the way. At least we know the problem so we can work towards a solution. The witnesses and all the parties are doing great work. They have all worked hard but I was particularly proud of the Irish Government's role in Northern Ireland and it was great to see how everyone accepts working with the other parties.

Frank Feighan (Roscommon-South Leitrim, Fine Gael)
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I expect that is the first time the Dunkettle roundabout has been referenced a meeting of the Joint Committee on the Implementation of the Good Friday Agreement.

Dr. Alasdair McDonnell:

Could those of us who are in ignorance of the location of the Dunkettle roundabout be informed?

Frank Feighan (Roscommon-South Leitrim, Fine Gael)
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I expect it is somewhere around Cork.

Seán Sherlock (Cork East, Labour)
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It is in my parish.

Mr. Mickey Brady:

I thank the Minister of State for his presentation. The petition of concern was mentioned. That has been a bone of contention because its original intention was to protect minorities. Unfortunately, during the last debate on same sex marriage it was used to ensure that it did not go through even though, for the first time in the Assembly, there was actually a majority in favour of it. This needs to be addressed. Like Alasdair, I have absolutely no knowledge of the Dunkettle roundabout. I am aware, however, of the concept of the Narrow Water bridge because it is just down the road from my own constituency and it is very dear to the hearts of many people because it would serve a very practical and useful purpose. It is good that it is still on the agenda.

The question of a workable budget was also raised and the Executive is discussing the budget today. Hopefully, it will be sorted out. On criminality and fuel laundering, I represent a constituency in the Six Counties, Newry-Armagh, which is often portrayed in a very negative light. Certainly, there are criminal gangs who operate on both sides of the Border and the provision of a task force would be welcome. Yesterday, I had a meeting with the PSNI area commander and was pleased to hear that there is now much more co-operation between An Garda Síochána and the PSNI. Hopefully that will continue and increase as these gangs seem to be roaming at will, committing crimes such as murder and fuel laundering, which are huge issues in our area. The penalties for fuel laundering in the South are much stiffer and people can be jailed. While a number of fuel laundering plants have been discovered in the North, nobody seems to have been brought to book. There have been very few or no prosecutions to date and nobody has been brought to court. This needs to be addressed. There may be changes to the dye that is used and that may negate the profitability of the activity.

The question of legacy was also raised. There was a report in November 2014 by Nils MuiŽnieks, Commissioner for Human Rights at the Council of Europe. He stated:

The UK government cannot wash its hands of the investigations, including funding of the investigations. These are the most serious human rights violations. Until now there has been virtual impunity for the state actors involved and I think the government has a responsibility to uphold its obligations under the European Convention to fund investigations and to get the results. The issue of impunity is a very, very serious one and the UK government has a responsibility to uphold the rule of law. This is not just an issue of dealing with the past, it has to do with upholding the law in general.

That is a very important point and one which needs to be addressed in a more robust manner. The Minister of State said the Minister for Foreign Affairs was meeting with Ms Theresa Villiers. I have spoken with Theresa Villiers and it is clear the British Government can arbitrarily throw a blanket of security over anything without prior discussion. I am not sure what the stuff that happened 40 years ago has to do with current security issues for the British state and that has to be addressed. The issue of legacy is ongoing and victims' groups to which we have talked would prefer no legislation to bad legislation. The overwhelming feeling among victims' groups and the families is acute disappointment that this issue has not been resolved.

Any commitments or agreements that we, as republicans, have made in any negotiations have been carried out but, unfortunately, that cannot be said of others.

Dr. Alasdair McDonnell:

I thank the chair and apologise on two fronts. First, because of events and commitments I have not been to the committee for a while but I intend to remedy that henceforth. The discussions took up an inordinate amount of time and I was not able to attend because at times I wanted to be in three places at once. I also apologise for being late this morning but not only is there a need for a Dunkettle roundabout, there is a need for a number of roundabouts on the northside of Dublin. I thought I could sneak my way through relatively quickly but hundreds of motorists conspired against me to ensure I did not get through quickly enough. I am sure the Minister of State will raise with the Cabinet the need for a number of roundabouts on the northside, particularly at Drumcondra.

There are many loose ends left around legacy issues but they must be pushed forward. The issues must be put to bed because there is a great deal of hurt and there are many victims who need answers. Those answers run right across the spectrum and everybody needs to be prepared to tell the truth but the British Government is using a national security fig leaf, or flag of convenience, to cover up things that do not need to be covered up. There is a broad acceptance that when real issues of national security are involved, they have to be dealt with accordingly. However, national security has been used on many occasions when it was inappropriate to do so.

I want to pay a warm and unconditional tribute to the Minister of State at the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade, Deputy Sherlock, to the Minister, Deputy Charles Flanagan, and to their entire staff. The entire Irish Government team was outstanding. We entered into this process where the British had, in the past few years, tried their damnedest to squeeze us all out, saying it was just a British problem which they would sort out. They not only excluded the parties but tried their damnedest to exclude the Irish Government. The whole team deserve a huge compliment for the way they elbowed their way back in. I know how difficult it was and we could all see and read the tea leaves about how difficult Ms Villiers was, particularly at the start, but in time she realised the tremendous role the Irish team was able to play and she came to respect it.

I find it difficult to cope with the endurance test, day in and day out, despite the fact that I only had to come from six or eight miles down the road. I do not know how the Irish team kept it up and I hope their constituents in Cork East and Laois-Offaly respect the effort they made. We certainly do. I want them to stay engaged and I want the legacy stuff to be seen through to the end. I meet people regularly, sometimes daily, and they need satisfaction. We are counting on the Minister and his team to hold the line on that. If they cannot do it, the Brits will not deliver. I am probably dumping a large responsibility on the Minister of State but I thank him and his entire team because it was a pleasure working with them all.

Frank Feighan (Roscommon-South Leitrim, Fine Gael)
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That is a fine endorsement and I thank Dr. McDonnell.

At our previous meeting, we had a very interesting discussion with Mr. John McCallister, MLA, on his proposed Bill that the Assembly or forum would include an opposition. What is the Minister of State's view on his proposals? What is his opinion on how A Fresh Start would deal with there being an official opposition at Stormont? Does he believe that would be beneficial to the working of the Assembly?

Seán Sherlock (Cork East, Labour)
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I would like, first, to thank Dr. Alasdair McDonnell for his good wishes in that sense. We should note the contribution he made as a negotiator on behalf of his party; he was at the table as well. A great deal of work was done by all parties in respect of the contributions to this agreement. I am just one person. Along with the Minister, Deputy Charles Flanagan, I represented the Irish Government at the talks. However, talks are only as good as the people who contribute to them. Significant contributions were made by those on all sides. I take this opportunity, in a personal capacity, to thank Dr. Alasdair McDonnell for his role and also for the contribution he made, as the former leader of his party, when the talks were ongoing.

The word "blanket" was used and Mr. Brady referred to the cover of the blanket during the past 40 years. With respect to the generational element, there is as much of a responsibility on politicians of my generation as there is on those who go before us to ensure that the legacy issues are not forgotten. We need to continue to press the British Government on the Dublin and Monaghan bombings, the Pat Finucane case and the relatives groups. In the context of to the issue of disclosure and national security, we need to ensure that some mechanism is found to deal with the outstanding historical issues. If society is to heal itself and if we are talking about the restoration of normative politics, in my humble opinion, there will not be a move on that restoration until such time as those issues are dealt with. That is a view that informs the Departments of Foreign Affairs and Justice and Equality in their everyday work. In the context of the team of people from the Department of Foreign Affairs who work with the victims and families and at political level in Northern Ireland - quietly and underneath the radar - in terms of trying to progress this agenda on a constant basis, it is fair to say that successive Irish Governments have sought to lean heavily on the British Government with regard to very specific cases and in respect of the principle that if society is to heal itself, it cannot do so unless the legacy issues are dealt with. I would contend that much progress was made last year on devising a process for dealing with the legacy issues and in regard to the potential for setting up institutional changes that would deal with that. We will continue to work on that matter. When the Minister, Deputy Charles Flanagan, meets the Secretary of State, Theresa Villiers, next week, the legacy issues will continue to be discussed and they will continue to be live issues.

I take the point that was made by Deputy Smith on the issue of the timelines and the electoral cycle. The work continues regardless of the electoral cycle. Whether it is possible to begin a process again early in the new year remains to be seen but, as I said at the outset, the Irish Government stands ready to engage. If there is a process that is to be started again in regard to dealing with these issues, we stand ready. There is no doubt but that we stand ready to deal with the legacy issues.

Brendan Smith (Cavan-Monaghan, Fianna Fail)
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Who starts the process?

Seán Sherlock (Cork East, Labour)
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We will continue the engagement with the Secretary of State. We have a soon to be appointed First Minister, if that person has not been ratified already and there is a Deputy First Minister. With respect to the negotiations, we felt strongly that we had made progress on the legacy issues. If the parties within the Executive feel that there is an urgency about dealing with these matters in the next number of weeks, the Irish Government stands ready to engage with the parties on it.

With respect to Senator Jim D'Arcy's points on justice issues, a meeting between the Minister for Justice and Equality, Deputy Fitzgerald, and Mr. David Forde took place on 11 December and another meeting will take place next week. If one notes the strategic oversight group, a distinction can be made between setting up an agency and setting up a task force. In the context of establishing a task force and doing so correctly, I would refer to a strategic oversight group which is inherent within the task force and an operations co-ordination group. I will quote directly from the document, which states, "representatives from the relevant law enforcement agencies at senior management level) that will identify strategic priorities for combating cross-jurisdictional organised crime". There is the day-to-day work that continues with respect to the cross-Border crime effort. This will allow for a flexible and reflexive response at the same time and it would be possible to do that in a co-ordinated way. There will be six-monthly ministerial meetings to ensure that this work is given the energy that it absolutely deserves.

I note the points in the agreement about Narrow Water bridge, the points about the symbolism of the road going both ways, as was said, in regard to the potential for tourism. I note also the points that are made in it on the issue of funding for tourism in context of the PEACE or INTERREG programmes. I further note the point that is made about the wording in regard to strengthening it and putting a budget line behind it, and that is something we will take away from this.

With regard to the point on the petition of concern and having an opposition, we have an appreciation of the various strands that exist under the Good Friday Agreement. There is an appreciation in this committee of the area of competences. In the context of Mr. McCallister's Bill, I would say that if one views it from one perspective, it is a very positive contribution to the restoration of normative politics in Northern Ireland. However, as a Member of the Dáil, and observing it from that vantage point, I would say, without seeking to kick to touch, that this would still be a matter for the Northern Ireland Executive. We would not go into the proposals in the Bill from a Government point of view but it is a positive step forward in terms of the contribution it will make towards the restoration of normative politics. I am not saying that politics there is abnormal in any sense, I am just saying that we operate in a particular way within this House. As parliamentarians, the concept of opposition and government is completely inherent to how we do business. I would imagine that any moves towards that would be welcomed but there is still an Executive and we acknowledge that as well.

I hope I have answered all of the questions that were put to me and if I have not, I would be happy to come back in again. I want to record my appreciation of the thanks people have offered us. I will convey that to the Minister, Deputy Charles Flanagan, and our team in the Department of Foreign Affairs. I thank the Chairman and members for the time they have afforded us.

Frank Feighan (Roscommon-South Leitrim, Fine Gael)
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Does Deputy Crowe have a supplementary question?

Seán Crowe (Dublin South West, Sinn Fein)
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When it comes to thanking people, the only person we have left out is the former American Senator Gary Hart who played a very important role.

This reiterates the importance of the American Administration in the peace process. It would be remiss of us not to thank him also.

While we are thanking everyone, we should also thank the staff of the committee and the Chairman for chairing meetings during the year, as well as the sound technicians and so on, which will allow me to end on a happy note.

Frank Feighan (Roscommon-South Leitrim, Fine Gael)
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I thank the staff, including Laoise, Tara, Jessica, Noel who was here earlier and Luke. I also thank Ronan and Sarah. I have been in Belfast and across Northern Ireland and we are very fortunate to have such a great public sector in the foreign affairs area. Those involved are committed and very professional and I thank them for the work they have done, with all other parties. I also thank our secretariat in Belfast, particularly Ruairí de Búrca, in recognition of the amount of work he has done duirng the years. I thank our communications team and also committee members for working with us in the past year. We have had some very interesting outreach visits to Northern Ireland, which were inclusive and very informative for us as a committee. The discussion today has been very informative and I thank the Minister and all parties involved. This inclusive agreement paves the way towards a brighter and more hopeful future for Northern Ireland, which is what this committee is about. I wish everyone a happy Christmas and peaceful new year. I thank members for all their support and hard work on the committee during the year. Once again, we have achieved a lot and engaged on genuinely meaningful issues.