Mr. Kevin Cardiff:

The Irish authorities negotiated then. In part they negotiated on the basis that they were improving the systems. They were increasing the likelihood that this would not happen in the future, that there would not be as many overclaims in the future, and they managed. I was not party to it but I understand there was a debate last week in the Oireachtas and that the sum was reduced from a €180 million demand down to about €45 million or €46 million. I suspect they would not have been able to do that unless they were able to show that they were improving the systems for the future.

Whether it is appropriate to pursue very small amounts is a value for money judgment in itself. It is a judgment whether the gain from chasing that is worth the candle relative to the pain caused to the individual and also the sheer administrative burden in that. We would not have anything to do with that decision. If, throughout Europe, we found there were many overclaimers who never got penalised, we would say that is a problem because then there is no incentive. In the French case, where on a similar basis they have been asked to pay about €1 billion in 2014-----