Oireachtas Joint and Select Committees

Wednesday, 16 December 2015

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality

Changing Policing in Ireland Report: Garda Inspectorate

9:30 am

Mr. Mark Toland:

I found that when we introduced a new concept or something that worked in another police service, the level of knowledge among management was particularly low. At the start, people were quite defensive about some of our recommendations, but when we explained how they could work and how circumstances might be different, there was far more acceptance. We have tried to engage management at all levels to persuade it and show that there are different ways of working. Some reluctance was related to a fear of the unknown and different working practices. We are recommending a change to the district structure which has been in place since the force was established. It is a major change, but I have actually lived through it as a police officer. Once we changed, none of my senior management team would have gone back to the old structure to work under it. There is a fear of the unknown. We know we need to explain the recommendations. We are very keen to meet those concerned and talk through them. We have done so in regard to crime, in the case of which things were starting to change following our report last year. The more engagement we have, the more we can explain what we mean by a recommendation. We should not just hand a report over; we need to work with management to help it to introduce something. Some of this involves significant change, or a complete change in the way the force operates. However, the structure is creaking and if management continues to try to operate under it, services, including 999 call services, will suffer, thereby affecting the public. We are saying the time is right now. The staff are in place and there is a senior management team. The funding is in place for technology, which can be a major inhibitor.

It is very difficult to allocate staff unless one knows how busy one is and what one's demands are. The force is still operating in some locations using paper-based systems. Once the force has the technology in place and starts to allocate resources according to need and demand, a much better service will be delivered. That is what we are trying to do. We are trying to provide a structure. We have actually brought together what we believe to be a simple structure for a very complex organisation. Clarity of role is important. In respect of the structure, we found that units that started off with a particular function now carry out three or four others in addition. Thus, they have lost the focus on their primary role. The proposed structure is about putting them back into their primary role and getting them to focus on a distinct area of policing. It is a question of getting other units to carry out the other functions that have been given to some of the national units, in particular. It is a question of having clarity of role and functions. When this is achieved, one can allocate resources appropriately. However, I do not believe management in a position to do so.