Mr. Pádraig McCabe:

I will try to cover as many points as possible. The first question I recall was how this can be properly done. I was thinking of our own situation. There are logistics and infrastructure required. We are lucky in that we had applied a long time ago, before this became an issue, for dining facilities, library facilities and a parents room. We were lucky to be involved in the home-school liaison scheme also. We had the infrastructure in place in terms of being able to provide this. Since the school completion came on board it is looking after the administration of it; that has taken a huge burden off the schools. Having somebody who can administer it locally makes a huge difference. School completion has dealt with all the paper work around our particular scheme. The infrastructure is basic. One is not talking about a huge amount of money. One is talking about a dishwasher, cups, saucers etc. In one school we had the facility to use our DEIS grant. It is a matter of prioritising. We have prioritised this in our school. Many schools that are availing of the scheme have prioritised it.

Which Department should be responsible? As Ms Sinéad Keenan said there are three Departments involved in the whole area of food - the Department of Social Protection provides funding for the meals, the Department of Education and Skills provides infrastructure and curriculum and the Department of Children and Youth Affairs looks after school completion. Genuinely, we do not mind which Department takes it on. If I was to say which Department should take it on board I can understand that people might look at me askance, but some Department needs to do it. If somebody asks what is meant by a strategy, a strategy is where one starts with the problem and work towards a solution. One does not start with the solution by throwing money at it and work towards the problem. One identifies and defines what the problem is and then see how to plan to address that. We are a DEIS band 1 school. We have been doing this for years. The Department of Education and Skills know this. People come in and ask what is our DEIS plan for this, that or the other. We start by setting a target, we then decide what we are going to do to achieve that target and then review how well we have achieved it. That is a strategic approach to a problem as opposed to just solving the problem by throwing money at it.

On the issue of why schools may not take up the offer - I have covered a few points and Ms Keenan has covered many - I do not think people get it in terms of the difficulties families are facing. We are very lucky in our school. We have a home-school liaison teacher.

She goes into kitchens and sees empty cupboards. This week she is involved in collecting food vouchers to give to families for Christmas. We have first hand knowledge of the problem. Other smaller schools may not have access to these facilities and that information may not be coming into the school. Even in our school, a DEIS band 1 school, we have very proud families. Sometimes it will be said to me that we are giving something to people who get everything. However, we know some families coming into us will not ask for anything and will not say or pretend they are in difficulty. We find that out because our home school liaison teacher goes to the houses and sees what is happening. There is a lack of knowledge of the reality on the ground.

A question was asked in regard to how to deliver without stigmatising. Our school does that. The breakfast club is there for everybody. Our school is a DEIS band 1 school, but as we all know, every school has a mix. This programme is self-selecting in some respects. If we provide lunches or breakfasts, those who need it will engage. In our case we target those who need it to ensure they engage. Those who do not need it will not engage, but at least we have made it available and have the facilities there for them. Perhaps Mr. Ruddy would like to add to that.