David Stanton (Cork East, Fine Gael)
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We have no apologies, although I believe Senator Zappone is running late. The purpose of this meeting is to have an engagement with Ms Margaret Taylor, chairperson designate of the Classification of Film Appeals Board. On behalf of the committee, I welcome Ms Taylor and thank her for attending. The format of the meeting will be that she will be invited to make a brief opening statement and there will be a question-and-answer session after that.

Before we begin, I draw Ms Taylor's attention to the position on privilege. She should note that she is protected by absolute privilege in respect of the evidence she gives to the committee. However, if she is directed by the committee to cease giving evidence on a particular matter and she continues to so do, she is entitled thereafter only to a qualified privilege in respect of her evidence. She is directed that only evidence connected with the subject matter of these proceedings is to be given and he is asked to respect the parliamentary practice to the effect that, where possible, she should not criticise or make charges against a person or persons or an entity by name or in such a way as to make him, her or it identifiable. I remind Members that, under the salient rulings of the Chair, they should not comment on, criticise or make charges against a person outside the House or an official either by name or in such a way as to make him or her identifiable.

Ms Margaret Taylor:

I thank members for giving me the opportunity to address them. I have been nominated as chairperson of the Classification of Film Appeals Board.

I can demonstrate a track record of successfully applying regulation, sound judgement and a solid record of decision-making throughout my career. I have 29 years' experience in the retail and leisure industries, starting with Golden Discs in 1979. I have ten years' direct experience in the cinema industry as managing director of Virgin Cinemas and UGC UK and Ireland. I have over ten years' experience at board level in companies whose turnover has ranged from £90 to £500 million. During my time in the cinema industry I had exposure to the film distribution and production industries. I also served as a member of First Light, an initiative funded by the United Kingdom Film Council to encourage young film-makers in schools and youth groups. I completed the successful sale of both the Virgin and UGC cinema circuits, achieving multiples of 13 and 11 times EBITDA, that is, earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation and amortisation, respectively, in 1999 and 2004. I retired to Ireland in 2005 and I live in west Cork. I am currently in my final year at UCC completing a BA in English and politics.

Classification decisions are made by the director of film classification at the Irish Film Classification Office, IFCO. The classification awarded to any given work is determined by application of classification guidelines, the main issues under consideration being violence, sex, drugs and language. The overall tone and context in which this material is presented will often be the determining factor in the classification awarded. When deciding on a classification, the IFCO considers the context and impact of the film as a whole rather than on the basis of one short image or scene. Consideration is given to whether content is presented within an educational context, for example, social themes such as anti-drugs or anti-discrimination or historical themes.

Although the prohibition of films remains within the remit of IFCO, there is general recognition nowadays that, as long as it is within the law, adults should be able to decide for themselves what they would like to view when they go to the cinema. The main emphasis is, therefore, on classification rather than censorship, as well as the protection of children and the promotion of parental responsibility. The IFCO has a duty to protect children and young people from harm and actively encourages feedback from the public and parents or guardians in particular. If a member of the public is not happy with a film classification decision, it is open to that person to contact IFCO directly by e-mail, as outlined on the IFCO website.

The provision of the Film Classification Appeals Board is required under the Censorship of Films Act 1923. The board consists of nine members, one of whom serves as chairperson. The board also provides the appeals function under the Video Recordings Act 1989. Therefore, theatrical and DVD certifications may be appealed. The process is straightforward. Any distributor who is aggrieved by the decision of the director of film classification to either grant a classification or prohibit a title may appeal to the Classification of Films Appeal Board. Under the process, a letter to the chairperson outlining the reasons for appeal and an appeal fee of €1,000 is forwarded. Upon receiving notice of appeal, the secretary contacts the board to arrange a suitable date to view the title. The secretary will circulate the letters of the director and the distributor to the entire board. After the board members have viewed the title, they discuss and complete a register with their decision to either grant or reject the appeal. The secretary will notify the director and distributor of the decision and if the appeal is granted, the appeal fee is refunded and a new certificate is issued.

There were no appeals to the Classification of Film Appeals Board during 2013. The term of office of the board ended on 29 April 2013. There were no video appeals in 2012 and three theatrical appeals. In those cases all the certificates were revised by the appeals board. In 2013, at total of 768 films, trailers and shorts received certification and 4,336 DVDs or videos received certification. There are currently no appeals on hand but this could, of course, change at any given time if a distributor is aggrieved by a classification decision.

The chairperson of the appeal board reports annually to the Minister for Justice and Equality. I will ensure, as far as possible, that decisions of the board, after full consideration reach consensus. Unanimous decisions are always desirable. I thank the members for their attention.

Martin Conway (Fine Gael)
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I thank Ms Taylor for her presentation. If an appeal board had been in place in 2014 and 2015, it would not have been busy. Have the other board members been appointed? What is the board's structure? Are the appointments made by the Minister? Are people from the film industry eligible for appointment? How are the appointments decided? What is Ms Taylor's remuneration, as chairperson, and what level of remuneration do ordinary board members receive?

Ms Margaret Taylor:

It is an interesting observation that there have not been appeals. That is down to the legislation. The appeal board is provided for in the legislation. It is an example of good governance. If there is a dispute, this is a mechanism to resolve it. Whether the legislation should be amended is a matter for the Minister.

There are nine members. I believe they are ministerial appointments. A completely new board is being put together and I understand this is being done by the Public Appointments Service. The board is gender equal or perhaps split five to four. There is no remuneration for any board member, with the exception of expenses in the event that travel or accommodation are required. There were three appeals one year but, as the Senator rightly pointed out, we do not expect to meet often. That is a sign of the good job the film classification director does. Appeals are the exception rather than the rule.

Martin Conway (Fine Gael)
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How does the new board work? If there is an appeal, €1,000 seems an onerous amount to be obliged to pay. Perhaps it is not. I do not have great knowledge of the financial structures of the industry. When a film is referred to the appeal board, it is circulated to the members. They will view it and then meet to have a discussion on it before deciding whether to uphold the appeal.

Ms Margaret Taylor:

Correct. It is a new board and it makes sense that we meet initially. I have no doubt they will have questions and will want to review previous decisions. I can reassure the Senator, based on my experience of the industry, that €1,000 is not a great deal of money in the grand scheme of things in terms of film turnover. That would be true of the big studios' productions but not necessarily of the smaller films. I understand the appeals that have been heard have tended to be taken by the major studios and there may be an issue in this regard.

Martin Conway (Fine Gael)
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Ms Taylor's has an impressive record and experience in the industry. How does our film classification structure compare to what she experienced in the UK?

Ms Margaret Taylor:

It is different. Ireland is slightly more progressive than the UK. There are more classifications here. For example, there are additional 16 and 15A classifications whereas the UK has 12A, 15 and 18 classifications.

Gabrielle McFadden (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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I agree with Ms Taylor's comment that adults should be able to decide for themselves what they view in the cinema and the main emphasis is on classification rather than on censorship.

David Stanton (Cork East, Fine Gael)
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The legislation goes back to 1923 and much has changed since then. Given the wide availability of material on the Internet, does this make classification redundant? We have received presentations over the years regarding what is available online and children of any age can access virtually anything at the touch of a button. Obviously, neither the film board or the appeal board can classify, censor or otherwise regulate this material.

Ms Margaret Taylor:

The online world is like the Wild West and it is a challenge that will only increase as we go forward. The 1923 legislation is fantastic. It is six pages long and it is incredibly succinct compared to the Video Recordings Act 1989, which is 70 pages long. That is an observation that might be worth exploring. It is testament to the 1923 Act that it has stood the test of time. It was introduced when silent movies were out.

The film censor would probably be able to give the Chairman a much better view. The world is changing.

David Stanton (Cork East, Fine Gael)
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Is it possible for a member of the public to appeal a decision of the censor if he or she is unhappy with it, rather than the option just being open to those in the industry?

Ms Margaret Taylor:

A process is overseen by IFCO that the public can access. The office engages strongly with the public. Staff have conducted a number of reports with parents of primary and post-primary children. They engage regularly with the public and I have read their reports on whether they are getting it right and whether they are addressing the concerns of parents regarding classification.

David Stanton (Cork East, Fine Gael)
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Ms Taylor has enlightened us on this topic and I thank her for attending. I wish her the very best in her work. She may not have much to do but at least she is in place and the board will be present. I wish members of the board all the best as well. The committee will notify the Minister that it has had an engagement with Ms Taylor.