Mr. Sé Goulding:

I will work through the questions and leave Senator Moran's questions until the end.

Deputy McConalogue mentioned the new model of provision of allocation of supports to schools and the pilot. Currently there are approximately 47 or 48 schools engaged in the pilot for primary and post-primary schools. The pilot is being rolled out by the Department of Education and Skills. The Minister announced it last February and it started in September.

The Deputy asked what to expect and what the students were learning. In the selection of schools, the Department ensured a full spectrum, including primary and post-primary, smaller rural schools as well as urban schools and disadvantaged schools etc. The idea was to get a true representation of the school sector at primary and post-primary level.

What are we expecting to learn? This is a model of allocation of supports. However, in addition we are asking schools to focus on the needs of students. Reference was made earlier to the labels attached to children. This model will not necessarily work off labels. It works by identifying the needs of the students. Then the schools plan how those needs will be met through the management and deployment of the teaching supports allocated to the schools.

The Department wanted to identify how the model is working. Schools did not lose out in the pilot process. However, it is not only about the model of allocation per sebecause the Department still has to see how the model will work. The Department has not yet come to its final conclusions, as far as I am aware, on how the resources will be allocated to schools but, equally, it wants to see how the schools will manage and deploy the supports in the best interests of the students concerned.

Deputy O'Brien asked about post-secondary education. The NCSE recognises that there are deficiencies once one moves beyond the post-primary sector. We conducted research in 2013 on post-school transitions and highlighted a number of issues which need to be addressed, including equity of assessment, eligibility requirements for the disability access route to education, DARE, scheme, lack of early school and career planning and a profession by school professionals that they lack specific knowledge on aspects of supports in further and higher education. It is one of the strategic priorities on which the council has focused over recent years. We are trying to review what provision is available in further and higher education. The council's main focus since it was established has been on the allocation of supports to students in a school setting. Everyone recognises now, however, that the issue moves beyond the school sector.

Deputy O'Brien also mentioned the National Educational Psychological Service, NEPS, and the number of assessments that would be carried out in a school. A fair few of the assessments required by schools are required in order to access resources. It is necessary to put the label on a student. Should the new model be adopted, that particular aspect of NEPS may not be as relevant. It would be relevant in assisting schools determine what strategies they would employ in meeting the needs of the student through, as Ms Byrne mentioned, the continuum-based approach.

Special autistic spectrum disorder, ASD, classes were also mentioned. I will speak in terms of the national provision. We have now moved for the first time to a situation where we have more than 1,000 special classes in mainstream primary and post-primary schools. The majority, approximately 65% or 75%, of those classes would be ASD classes. We recognise that there is a demand for them and the demand is beginning to emerge at second level as well. Over the past four to five school years, we have increased the number of special classes in post-primary mainstream schools from approximately 106 to 254. We also have plans in place to open more classes next year.

We recognise that in some cases there is a lead-in time in the establishment of such classes. The schools may have to go through a planning process and apply to the building unit of the Department of Education and Skills for access to the capital expenditure programme. We are trying to ensure places are available in schools but we recognise that there will be a lead-in time. In some cases, it may be that we are not quite clear where parents will enrol their children in second level schools. We may expect a demand in area A but it may end up in area B. We try to identify where the demand will be as early as possible. We roll out our applications process for schools generally in February or March each year so that we can have resources in place in schools well in advance of the start of the school year. The schools can then plan for how they will manage and deploy the resources allocated for the start of the school year.

A child being taken for only a part of the school day was mentioned. The lead agency dealing with the issue would probably be Tusla. We would also have concerns if that were the case. If there is a specific case, I am happy to discuss it further after the session. Obviously, we cannot comment on a specific case during this hearing. In fairness, I am aware of situations where, as part of the programme, schools have commenced with a reduced school day in order to allow the student to adapt to the school setting. If that is the context for a reduced school day, there can be a logic to it. However, no one would agree that it would be used on a permanent basis as it would exclude a child from access to education.

Deputy O'Brien also mentioned a specific case where assistive technology has helped. We agree it helps but, if assistive technology helps, it helps because the student is able to access the learning the teacher is providing. The assistive technology in itself will not be the solution. This concerns how the student and the teacher interacts in the classroom setting. Assistive technology is a tool or a means to make that happen. At junior certificate level, schools can determine themselves to what extent a student may require access to reasonable accommodation. At leaving certificate level, a report is required which will enable a student to access it but it is done on a needs basis.

I referred to special classes. Deputy O'Brien mentioned that resources should travel with students. The resources do travel with students but we have approximately 4,000 schools in the country, comprising 3,300 primary and approximately 750 post-primary schools. There is significant movement of students between those schools and there is a significant movement of students out of those schools. We resource the schools in terms of teaching and SNA supports to enable them to meet the special education and care needs of the students. There is quite an ebb and flow of resources. There is no question that the student supports will not follow them, in particular the resource teaching, but it may impact on the overall level of supports allocated to the school in question which could alter from year to year. This is why we put our allocations process in place well before the start of the school year. For the past few years, we have allocated supports to schools in mid to late May. The school knows in advance precisely what resources it will have the following September. The applications process at present is the manner in which resources are allocated. The new model, if piloted successfully and adopted, would not require an applications process because the model of allocation would be different. The allocation would be made to the school.