Liam Twomey (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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I support this process because it is good for all of the relevant organisations and the Oireachtas to understand what is really happening. One of the grocery multiples in this country builds all its new outlets to the same size and configuration. In that way, it knows what to expect in terms of heating, maintenance and staffing costs. It can compare outlets in different countries, whether that be Ireland or Germany. Direct comparisons are possible. Ms McGrath made reference to environmental and legal factors but all of those can be taken into account. One can still strip it down to day-to-day costs and long-term maintenance costs. It is a little like comparing private and public hospitals in this country. Every time one tries to make a comparison, the public hospitals will say that private hospitals do not carry out the complex work that is carried out in the public hospitals, as if that means that one cannot look at day-to-day expenditure and governance arrangements. In reality, however, there is still a substantial amount of waste within some of the public hospitals. The absenteeism rates, for example, are incredibly high in the public sphere and many of the hospitals operate in an inefficient manner.

This is very much the purpose of today's discussion because we can strip everything down and - no disrespect to Mr. Long - get the accountant's view. It is often said that accountants know the cost of everything and the value of nothing, while economists know the value of everything and the cost of nothing. We need to be able to strip it down so that we can make comparisons across the different units within the OPW. Hopefully this exercise will be done across all Departments so that we can make meaningful comparisons.

I am sure the OPW is comparing its costs with those of the public private partnerships, PPPs, in the school sector, for example. There is scope to analyse OPW schools vis-à-visPPP schools. I do not know what role-----