Ms Clare McGrath:

No, but we are moving towards all of us beginning to show what our total cost of occupancy is. In one area, that will also include the space per person. I am saying that the OPW is moving in the direction of 12 sq. m per person. We are not at that now. When I report on this annually, it is an internal measure, but I think it is an external one too. I will be saying this has to start moving towards 12 sq. m over a period. To do that, I need to know that I have all the data and the survey. All of this is costing money to provide. No less than us, every other property holder has this. It is not in our interest to hold spare capacity if somebody else can come in and give us a rent or a lease. It is not in anybody's interest. That is what we will be looking to do collectively. The willingness will be there on various levels. If the Senator is asking me how one might measure it, I am not sure. I am not sure how one puts a performance measure on willingness. I have the reverse issue, in fact. The OPW has properties close to Garda stations which are individual units nationally, but I do not have vacant office space. As a property organisation, I should be running at a percentage of vacant space to enable me to move people so that I can retrofit and upgrade accommodation to provide greater quality accommodation and ensure it is at the highest level of performance while also increasing densities. I need people out so that I can take down walls, and as such, I should be running at vacant space. However, I am not. I would like to use some of the vacant space that might be available throughout the whole of Government estate to decant elements of our organisation during upgrades, rationalisation and investment in the owned estate to improve utilisation performance.