Mr. Pat Farrell:

But push back on value for money is, in my opinion, credible and legitimate. It's not to be confused with, "Are you prepared to support more resources?" We called out a whole number of initiatives that we thought the regulator should do. Every one of them would cost money. And the chairman at one stage - I can't remember which chairman; there were two - I know was on the public record, I think it's in the public realm as saying that if resources were the issue, the industry would not be found wanting. That was on the basis that we were paying 50% of the fees. Now, by the way, just in relation to 50% of the fees, just to be clear, the 50% of the fees paid by the industry was not the industry's idea; that was what was decided by the authorities at the establishment of the regulator. And there's a whole debate about regulatory capture and whether that can happen as a result of the fees. Other jurisdictions, they chose to fund it from the exchequer.