Mr. Greg Mulholland:

I thank the Deputy for his questions. Rural pubs is a particular concern in Ireland, particularly in the context of the tourist appeal of the Irish pub in many areas. We have not pursued the possibilities of taxi licences for pubs or schemes in terms of designated drivers and so on, although I think that is a measure it would be interesting to look at in relation to rural areas. What has happened in the UK, and I think is worth looking at, is the Pub is the Hub scheme, which is not a Government initiative but it is supported by Government. It is a charity supported by a number of organisations which works with communities, villages and licensees to enable them to diversify their business, adding new things such as shops and so on. It is ironic that we are now moving towards the old Irish model of the grocer and pub being co-located, which is not something we did in the past in the UK. We are trying to enable diversification, including in relation to post offices in the context of the recent threat to that sector. I would suggest the committee look at the work of Pub is the Hub, in respect of which I am happy to facilitate links.

Also, there has been a presumption in planning law to seek to protect a last pub in a village.

Clearly, there are villages that may have had two, three or four pubs, and once it is down to one pub, it is in planning guidance in the UK that the pub should have greater protection than other pubs, and that is clearly sensible. It is not an absolute and perhaps it could go further.

It is important to say, on the other side of that coin, that sometimes the so-called pub and beer industry in both countries must accept that pubs will not always be great direct income generators, and there are some areas where the pub may only provide a living for someone and their family. It may not be at all appealing to a larger company or suppliers. It is important to look at the community worth and the fact that pubs are still contributing very significantly and directly to local communities. In the UK we have figures from the British Beer and Pub Association indicating that every pound spent in a pub provides twice the value to the local economy of a pound spent in a supermarket. People who run bed and breakfasts and local shops tell us that if a pub closes, it makes a village less attractive and it is damaging to tourism, so more must be done to ensure there are ways, through some initiatives that we are implementing and that are being implemented here, to help pubs to survive.

We have seen a very exciting increase in community pubs, and that has not yet happened here. The Plunkett Foundation helps communities to put a bid together and formulate various models to run a pub, including but not limited to co-operatives. There are now some thriving community pubs, and some of these may not make more than a wage for the person behind the bar, although that may be enough for that person and their family. It could become a viable public house for the future and, crucially, it will continue to help the wider economy; it will still encourage people to use the bed and breakfasts, hotels and other tourist attractions. Without the pub, the place would suffer, and then we would be on a very dangerous downward spiral. It would be useful to bring some of those ideas together.

On the beer duty question, the answer is, "I do not believe so." The figures I have provided are national figures. I can speak to the people in the Campaign for Real Ale, CAMRA, and the British Beer and Pub Association to see if any regional figures are being pulled together. If they have been, I will certainly be happy to share them with the committee.