John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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No matters arise from the minutes of the last meeting. We will proceed to correspondence from our meeting of 18 June 2015. No. 3A, correspondence from Accounting Officers and their Ministers and correspondence from Ms Niamh O'Donoghue, Secretary General of the Department of Social Protection, which is a follow-up from the Committee of Public Accounts meeting of 28 May 2015, is to be noted and published. Nos. 3B.1 and 3B.3, correspondence from Mr. William Treacy on issues arising in respect of Horse Racing Ireland, is to be noted. No. 3B.2, correspondence dated 11 June 2015 from Ms Anne Marie McKiernan, Registrar of Credit Unions, Central Bank of Ireland, regarding savings protection schemes administered and maintained by the Irish League of Credit Unions, is to be noted and published. No. 3B.4, correspondence dated 6 June 2015 from an official of the Irish Prison Service who wishes to remain anonymous regarding compensation of staff of the Irish Prison Service, is to be noted and forwarded to the service for a note on the matters raised.

I will now proceed to documents related to today's meeting. No. 3C.1 is the opening statement for today's meeting. It is to be noted and published. No. 4 concerns reports, statements and accounts received since our meeting of 18 June regarding the National University of Ireland and the Western Development Commission. Could Mr. McCarthy comment on the National University of Ireland?

Mr. Seamus McCarthy:

Yes. It is a clear audit opinion but I draw attention to the non-consolidation of the results of the Galway University Foundation Limited with those of the university group. The university is of the view that the foundation is not controlled by the university. However, I am drawing attention to the fact that, at 30 June 2012, the foundation had accumulated reserves of almost €54 million.

John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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How does that €54 million stand in relation to Mr. McCarthy's audit?

Mr. Seamus McCarthy:

I do not audit the foundation so-----

John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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Is there a suggestion that the foundation should be part of the university accounts?

Mr. Seamus McCarthy:

It is clear that in a situation where the university controls a foundation, one would expect it to be incorporated into the group. The foundation exists for the purpose of providing benefit to the university. It would be expected that in due course the resources that are in the foundation would be there to the benefit of the college. I am drawing attention to it in the sense that it is important in understanding the affairs of the university that it is understood that there is a fund of that size.

John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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Who is the Accounting Officer in the university?

Mr. Seamus McCarthy:

The president of the university?

John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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The president of the university, being the Accounting Officer, can appear before the Committee of Public Accounts.

Mr. Seamus McCarthy:

That is correct.

John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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Is the National University of Ireland to appear before us in relation to other matters?

Mr. Seamus McCarthy:

The HEA.

John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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Then we can take this up with the HEA first.

Mr. Seamus McCarthy:

It is a matter that arises with other universities also. I think I pointed out last week that NUI Maynooth has a similar arrangement, but certainly a smaller sum is involved.

John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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On our work programme, next week the Revenue Commissioners will be in to deal with general matters, local property tax, taxation of rental income and so on. The following week, we will deal with the special report on County Cork VEC. Before us in the first session on that day, between 10 a.m. and 12.30 a.m., we will deal with the Comptroller and Auditor General's report. Will we have the Accounting Officer for County Cork VEC?

Clerk to the Committee:

Yes.

John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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Second is the financial statement of the Higher Education Authority. That was to deal with issues in relation to Cork Institute of Technology. What is the position on the Accounting Officer?

Clerk to the Committee:

There is no report. With regard to Cork Institute of Technology, allegations were made which the HEA investigated, so its representatives are coming in to talk to us about that.

John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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Can we invite in the Accounting Officer?

Clerk to the Committee:

We can. It will be July so many of them will be on holidays.

John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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Can we extend an invitation to the Accounting Officer?

Clerk to the Committee:

Yes. We can extend an invitation.

John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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Is it under this heading that we are going to bring in GMIT?

Clerk to the Committee:

Yes.

John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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Can the Accounting Officer from there appear as well?

Clerk to the Committee:

We have asked for that officer. There is an issue about holidays for universities. Many of the presidents are on holiday. We approached them last week. We have asked them but we can return to the issue.

John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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I think we should indicate to both presidents, of CIT and GMIT, that because of the questions being raised, it is the wish of the Committee of Public Accounts to have them attend a hearing with the other officials as well. We should make that perfectly clear.

Our work programme is agreed. Is there any other business?

John Deasy (Waterford, Fine Gael)
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At last week's meeting, we dealt with the special investigations unit and spent quite some time dealing with the case of Mr. Tom Galvin and the slaughtering of pigs on his farm in 2002. At the meeting, the Secretary General of the Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine gave an undertaking that an internal report that was conducted in 2005 by the Department would be sent for review to a new steering group being set up within the Department. We need to ascertain whether that step or action has been taken since the meeting. If not, we should find out when the review will be called for within the Department. Maybe we need to follow up on that undertaking that was given by the Secretary General at the meeting. I have spoken to Mr. Galvin since last week's hearing and he has indicated to me willingness to participate in that review - something that did not happen when the internal review was conducted in 2005.

The second point has to do with an undertaking given by the Secretary General on what we dealt with yesterday, the announcing of the report on the fishery harbours. When can we expect the Department to meet Enterprise Ireland and Bord Iascaigh Mhara with regard to the promotion of business within those fishery harbours and the use of the buildings at the fishery harbours? Could we get a date with regard to that meeting? I think we should follow up on that as well.

Paul Connaughton (Galway East, Fine Gael)
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A number of weeks ago, we raised an issue with the Office of Government Procurement regarding a meeting we had with the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform. I know we asked it for an update as to what had happened since that meeting. Have we received any correspondence back? Some of those concerned who I met received no feedback whatsoever from the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform in relation to meetings or any details as to how things have changed since.

John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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Again, let me clarify that. We asked that the members of the committee be notified. Is it correct that there has been no meeting?

Paul Connaughton (Galway East, Fine Gael)
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It met the Small Firms Association. It is saying there was confusion.

John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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Who met the Small Firms Association?

Paul Connaughton (Galway East, Fine Gael)
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The Department of Public Expenditure and Reform.

John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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It was to meet the other group but has not met it.

Paul Connaughton (Galway East, Fine Gael)
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No.

John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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I thought it was made perfectly clear on the day that an arrangement should be made to set up that meeting, and that we were to be informed when it was set up.

Paul Connaughton (Galway East, Fine Gael)
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As of last Thursday, it had not happened anyway.

John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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Can we write again?

Clerk to the Committee:

We can.

John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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If that is the way it conducts its business, it is no wonder delays are being experienced in other Departments.

Joe Costello (Dublin Central, Labour)
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How is our docklands report progressing?

John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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We set a date after the summer for that report. The answer to the question is that it is progressing and will be completed.

Joe Costello (Dublin Central, Labour)
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It is ongoing.

John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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In fairness to the clerk and staff, we have just completed two reports and had them published.

Joe Costello (Dublin Central, Labour)
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Absolutely. Full compliments to them.

John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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We now have to concentrate on that report. As the Deputy has shown a keen interest in it, I am sure the staff are particularly careful about how they proceed.

Joe Costello (Dublin Central, Labour)
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They will not be taking holidays in the summer.

John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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Deputy Deasy raised a number of issues of concern arising from last week. We asked that they would respond comprehensively in writing to the issues that were raised by the group that we had met, the individuals affected by the SIU.

We said we would highlight a number of cases where we had correspondence, for example, with Charles Farrell, Mr. Harrington and Mr. Shine. They asked that we bring those matters to their attention and said that they would respond forthwith.

John Deasy (Waterford, Fine Gael)
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We had also asked that they release the internal report that was cited by the Secretary General when it came to Mr. Galvin. That was agreed, pending the receipt of legal advice. I ask the Chairman to follow up that and ask if it can be made available to the committee.

John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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We will remind them of all of these issues and send them a transcript of the meeting. In fairness to those who made the submission, they should also receive a transcript of the meeting because Mr. O'Driscoll made it perfectly clear that he felt it was untrue or even that they might have been telling lies, to put it another way. If that is the case, then those people should be given the opportunity to respond. I would ask that the transcript be sent to those people who made a submission and who gave us details of their experiences with the SIU.

Later this evening the clerk will circulate a draft report on the Bytel project. The Committee of Public Accounts of the Northern Ireland Assembly will publish its report on this project next Wednesday and I propose that we do likewise. I ask members to contact the clerk if they wish to propose amendments to the draft report. One way or the other, at 5 p.m. next Tuesday we should just publish the report. Apologies, if members have any comments on the report, they should submit them to the clerk before Wednesday next rather than Tuesday. At midday on Wednesday we will publish the report. Is that agreed? Agreed.

We have agreed our agenda for 2 July. Before we move on to today's business there is one more item to be dealt with. We had been dealing with HL Commodity Foods in Limerick but had not completed our business on that. I have asked the clerk to get an update on the issues that were raised in correspondence and bring it to the next meeting. We will now move on to the subject of today's meeting.