Joe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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Okay. Then you see paragraph 4, Mr. Grimes, there was a discussion of various forms of State intervention. Then the regulator said, there is no evidence to suggest that a particular institution which is named is insolvent on the going concern basis, it is simply unable to continue on the current basis from a liquidity point of view. He felt another institution was in a similar situation. Now a very high-level official in the Department then, noted that Government would need a good idea of the potential loss exposure within, and those two financial institutions are named. On some assumptions one of them could be €2 billion after capital, and the other one could be €8.5 billion after capital. What's the meaning of that minute? Does it mean, to put it clearly from an interpretation that I drew which I just put out to you, that after its capital and resources were used up, the first institution would be €2 billion ... insolvent to the tune of €2 billion, and the second insolvent to the tune of €8.5 billion?